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by imustbeevil 780 days ago
Weather accounts for 75% of all airline delays (in the US). That disclaimer is kind of surprising to gloss over.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/22/weather/why-flights-get-c....

3 comments

Yes, but it's a bit unfair to ding an airline 600 euros per passenger on top of the fare refund because the weather wasn't safe. Fining an airline north of 100k because they didn't take off in unsafe weather would result in an even greater incentive to fly anyway.

The fines are there to disincentivise the airlines from skimping on staffing or maintenance, causing delays, and lumping passengers with the expenses incurred by having to rearrange travel at short notice.

I assume there is some kind of system in place to prevent airlines falsely claiming bad weather to escape the compensation rules.

I think there's another side to this. There's weather, and there's "It's winter".

I don't think it's reasonable for airlines to expect to maintain the same number of departures that worked in the nice summer months through the winter. Runways will need to be cleared, planes will need to be de-iced.

They could keep extra planes and staff around ready to replace an incoming flight if it's delayed (clearly easier for carriers with fewer types of aircraft). Heck just staff seem like they would be handy as the flight crew hit their service limits.

But there's no financial incentive to do that if "weather" (despite happening every winter) is a get-out-of-jail-free card.

There’s already an incentive with the weather. If have the plane has to be rebooked or refunded that’s lost revenue that stills ends up affecting the bottom line.

The airline is still very incentivized to get you were you are going on time. Planes and crews still need to get where they were going so it’s much better for everyone involved if it’s a full plane with an on time arrival for passengers.

> I don't think it's reasonable for airlines to expect to maintain the same number of departures that worked in the nice summer months through the winter. Runways will need to be cleared, planes will need to be de-iced.

Exceptional/unexpected weather is one thing. But the concept of winter isn't exceptional. Deicing and snow clearing is a known factor. In Tampa that's an exceptional thing, in Helsinki it's not.

The thing with this regulation (and the EU one) is that airlines can't just compete on running with minimal margins and skeleton crews every days, where a single unscheduled repair or sick crewmember sends ripples of delays through the system. For travellers to have any security there needs to be some sort of slack in the system. A spare crew, or a spare plane. So how do you make that not a catastrophic market disadvantage? Like this. By making airlines economically responsible for delays.

    > They could keep extra planes and staff around ready to replace an incoming flight if it's delayed
This seems unrealistic. The cost would be prohibitive.
This was the norm a few decades ago. Spare pilots and other aircrew at all airports, even spare aircraft at large hubs.
Compare ticket costs a few decades ago to now.
> I don't think it's reasonable for airlines to expect to maintain the same number of departures that worked in the nice summer months through the winter.

Agree. So they don’t sell tickets for those flights that don’t run, then there’s nothing to compensate.

Operate fewer flights if they are going to struggle to operate the ones they sell tickets for.

Being forced to refund money may make the airlines force even more planes to fly that are knowingly unsafe.
Yet evidence from the EU says this doesn’t apply.
No offense but airlines in the US do work differently than the EU. I think it's possible for both of us to be right though.
Forcing airlines to compensate passengers for weather delays isn't going to work, and isn't equitable. You'd probably have people purposefully trying to book flights that are liable to be cancelled in order to profit.

Don't know what disclaimer you're referring to but in the EU you still get a full refund for cancellations no matter what the reason.

If you know the flight will be cancelled why would the airline sell you the ticket?
Did you just contradict yourself? I'm confused.
You can be refunded without receiving additional compensation.
It worked for us a few years ago. Eurowings was late and the plane had to land somewhere else, they got us to the destination airport with buses. Then we got 250 EUR comp.