[pavel_lishin]

I am consistently enjoying myself more when doing coding side projects, than anything at work. I think that's just ... sort of normal when your profession and your hobby are the same thing - when you don't have any boss except yourself.

[Swizec]

To share an opposite anecdata: After many years of coding side projects and work projects, I no longer get a kick out of side projects. They just don’t scratch the itch anymore. They just pale in interestingness/size/complexity compared to what I get to do at work and if I wanted a big enough side project to scratch the itch, then it would require a team to get done and wouldn’t be a side project.

[kgf1980]

I think for me it’s not having a time pressure - if it takes me 2 weeks spending 2 hours a day to implement something there’s no issue when it’s just projects for myself (I’ve basically written a PWA for tracking my pay, hours, rest time etc which I use every day, and implement a new feature I decide would be useful when it comes up, so kind of the ultimate dog-fooding)

[ipaddr]

I' m the opposite. I put myself under 2 week sprints at home. Imagine someone is working on the same idea and put pressure on myself to get done and release.

At work I hold things an extra day or more so I have something easy to say at the standup. Stands ups at work force this slow pace because it sounds better and is easier for others to follow.

[jmkni]

I've come to realise that actually coding is the part of software development I enjoy the least, and in many staff software engineer positions, that is basically entirely what you are doing

Other people are doing the fun/interesting stuff, project managers, product owners, scrum masters, etc etc are doing all of the fun interesting figuring out/thinking, and then it's just your job to code it.

When you work on side projects, you get to wear all of those other hats and it's way more rewarding

[pavel_lishin]

Wild! Coding, for me, is the fun part - implementing the solution, once I've come up with one.

I've never looked at a product owner or a scrum master and thought to myself, "man, those guys get to have all the fun." I've more often thought, "wow, they have to answer to three people, two of whom are assholes, who have four opinions on how things should be done between them."

[turdprincess]

Actually coding is the domain of mid level and senior engineers. Staff engineers architect, design technical strategy, collaborate across teams. A proper staff engineer might only see code during review or a proof of concept.

[cudgy]

Opposite for me. Much rather code an abomination than hash out the abomination in meetings all day with scrum “masters”, product “owners”, and software “engineers”.

[doctor_eval]

Not really related to your points but I feel that separating design and implementation is a mistake; the people designing and implementing should be, if not the same people, then certainly in the same room, and in constant contact.

So it could be that, if you’re in a world where you aren’t getting to do any of the fun figuring-out stuff, perhaps that’s a problem with the workplace structure rather than with programming generally.

I enjoy a bit of everything, and am apparently lucky to have been able to do it for a long time.

[treflop]

For me, I enjoy programming but just as a tool. I enjoy it like I do my table saw.

But I use my table saw because I want to build certain stuff. Maybe a cabinet or something. You would never catch me using my table saw or programming “just for fun.”

And if I’m not enjoying what I’m building, it’s not like the tool will somehow make it enjoyable.

[pipes]

I've heard with lorry driving there are issues with vibrations causing physical harm eventually? Maybe that is nonsense?

If you don't mind me asking how much were you earning as a developer and how much do you earn driving lorries?

[jdietrich]

Modern trucks (at least European-style cab-over trucks) have extremely soft ride quality. The truck itself has airbag suspension, plus an additional suspension system built into the seat. You do get jostled about a bit, but the movement is very slow and floaty. I'm not aware of any reports of vibration-related harm.

[kgf1980]

I’ve not had any issues with vibrations but I’ve not been driving perhaps long enough?

That said, the newer generation of trucks are so smooth I don’t think that’s as much of an issue as it may have been in previous generations.

Wage wise, working as a developer in the UK (working for small consultancies, not startups etc) my wage topped out at around 38k - last year driving I earnt 46k and this year with promotion (from rigid to articulated vehicles) and annual payrise, plus assuming I work a similar amount of hours I’m estimating 52-55k (all before tax)

[throwaway5959]

I’ll never understand why developers there make less than the US. It’s not like they aren’t providing similar scale/leverage to a business.

[mschuster91]

Because we don't need to set away money for medical care, retirement, the education of our kids and a host of other expenses, the government takes care of that, and our housing costs are far lower than in the US.

Oh and we have public transport that actually works and walkable cities, so at least in urban areas where you find the techies, we don't need a big-ass gas guzzling SUV to get to work or to go and grab some basic groceries. We go to work on the subway/streetcar, and we walk by foot or use a bike to go and shop groceries.

Americans always boast about how much they earn compared to us (Western) Europeans, but IME when you make them break down their monthly budget, it usually turns out that after deducting fixed costs, we are roughly the same in purchasing power, and we're happier on top of that as we don't have to fear a random hospital visit might leave us with a 10k$ bill.

[returningfory2]

I feel this comment's characterizations of both the US and Europe are both basically wrong (or at least, they would require significant qualifications to be reasonable).

I grew up in a suburb of a relatively dense Western European city with ~250k people. The city has buses, but everyone I know gets to work by car. Horrible traffic - 15 mile highway commutes take 45 minutes in the morning. When I was growing up I went to school by car. Nowadays when my father needs groceries he drives for 5 minutes (rather than walk for 15).

Since moving to the US I haven't driven at all - though I live in New York, so it's obviously a special case. For healthcare, "a random hospital visit might leave us with a 10k$ bill" doesn't exist for tech workers - as anyone who's actually worked in tech in the US would know. It's true that the US healthcare has severe access problems for a large portion of the population. But those problems are non-existent for tech workers with employer insurance and bounded out-of-pocket costs.

[pipes]

House prices in the UK are awful. The health system is dire. The education system (in Scotland at least) is awful too (I know several teachers here who will tell you the same, and the international ratings speak for themselves. Tax is high, salaries for tech are way lower than US too. State pensions are chump change.

[badpun]

By some estimates, the US is home to 50% of world's globally reaching corporations. Software written at those companies has giant business implications (thanks to those companies' scale), and thus the devs can be better compensated for their work.

[369548684892826]

If this was the reason then UK developers working for US companies would be paid better

[badpun]

Not neccessarily. Companies just pay each country's market wages. The difference between US and UK is that large amount of developer positions with high return on investment (for the company) pushes US market wages upwards - all those megacorps are competing for a limited pool of US people, and can afford to compete on salaries.

[kshacker]

I hear it is much harder to fire in Europe. One of my colleagues (based is US) is trying to fire an obvious underperformer; and I hear only tidbits; but it is quite difficult. Imagine your risk of being fired decreased 90%, would you be willing to take a slightly smaller salary? Of course when you (the employee) do not trust the company / government, you are also willing to be more mercenary and jump at smallest opportunities, so companies in US probably have to pay a bit more to keep the talent.

[imtringued]

Why would anyone give a shit about it being harder to get fired when it comes to salary? In what kind of distorted world do you live in? I will never understand how you guys come up with these stories. Like, why exactly do you need to fire the guy through the hardest way possible, when you could just fire them the normal way? Like, you're complaining that your own culture is holding you back, because you can't live out your power trip fantasy by telling the guy to put his stuff in a box while a security guard is forcing him out of the building in the most obnoxious way. That type of firing in Germany is reserved for people who have committed crimes on the job.

[maccard]

It varies country by country. The UK is basically at-will for the first two years, and it becomes more difficult after that.

[pipes]

From knowing people who've fired people before, in the UK people seem to overestimate how hard it is to fire someone.

[throwaway5959]

No I wouldn’t because I’m good at what I do (at least reasonably so) and I have an emergency fund. There is no safety net in the US for those between 18-65 for the most part.

[pcthrowaway]

Worse than the physical harm caused from working at a desk?

I've never driven a Lorry, but I did drive for a living, and also drive long distances regularly.

But I find my car seat much more comfortable than my desk chair, and my posture much better in the car than one I can maintain while sitting at a desk and typing.

Of course, if you're doing very long drives you may not get as many opportunities to stand up and stretch your legs, but I'd imagine lorry drivers would have this opportunity once every hour or so.

[jspash]

I've just returned from a 10 day trip across Europe. 5 days to destination. 5 days there. 5 days back. I've been back for 2 weeks now and I think I've only just "recovered" from the drive. The cognitive load of the German autobahn. Trying to understand the road markings in different countries. Rain one day. Snow the next. Glaring sunshine the next.

Now, sitting in my home office in a comfy chair with no vibrations, no continuous noise and no apparent imminent potential for death is most definitely my preferred way to spend 8 hours a day.

Next year is going to be a stay-cation!

[rsynnott]

I mean... have you considered a _train_? :)

[vl]

If so, why not to get different chair (perhaps used car chair) and set it up the same way as it setup in the car?

[pcthrowaway]

The way I sit while driving is very different from typing

Typing I'm not able to recline and comfortably type. It's possibly a different chair, desk, keyboard, and monitor setup could help with this but I'm self-employed right now and not able to shell that out for what would amount to experiments which I don't expect to be particularly fruitful.

I have worked in a number of offices and with a variety of setups when employers were footing the bill, and have yet to find one that was significantly more comfortable than my current setup.

When driving I'm in much more of a relaxed reclining position and just steering. Long distances I can add cruise control to the mix. Making minor adjustments to the steering wheel is completely different from the wrist/fingertip stress of typing, and good posture when working at a desk requires being more upright, which in my experience ends up putting more stress on my back and neck also.