[cbdumas]

For anyone planning a visit to Spain, I can't recommend Madrid highly enough. I wasn't sure what to expect from the city, but it might be my favorite I've ever been to. Madrid is beautiful, clean, walkable, and very welcoming. The food was all amazing and it seemed like we never had to wait for a table. I had a great time in Barcelona, but I'd recommend Madrid over Barcelona in a heartbeat.

[jillesvangurp]

Madrid is indeed very nice. Perfect destination in early spring or late autumn as winters are very short there. Avoid in the summer as it gets stupidly hot there. One reason I like it is that it's far away from the beaches and package tourists. It's a huge modern city. And there's plenty to see. I love the public parks there. There's a huge new park on top of the inner ring road which they partially covered up. Perfect place to hang out on a warm day. Also did wonders for the nearby neighborhood which are now quiet and a lot less smelly than they used to be.

There are a couple of other museums well worth visiting near El Prado. El Prado can get very busy because it's on everybody's list of things to visit. I've been there on a quiet day at some point and it's very enjoyable. But when you have to queue up for 45 minutes just to get in, it's probably a lot less nice. Thyssen-Bornemisza Museum has a pretty amazing collection and is right across the street. And down the street is the Reina Sofia, which has a nice modern art collection (think lots of Miro, Picasso, Dali, etc.).

If you have time and a car, driving around Spain is very enjoyable. I've seen most of it's larger and smaller cities over the years.

[agile-gift0262]

> If you have time and a car, driving around Spain is very enjoyable. I've seen most of it's larger and smaller cities over the years

+1. But the train, specially being in Madrid, is a very good alternative to the car to travel around Spain.

[jillesvangurp]

Sure, between the bigger cities, the train is amazing. I did Valencia to Madrid by high speed rail in 2022 for example. Works great. The average speed is close to the maximum speed of the train; it only slows down to stop.

But for the more rural regions and smaller cities, you pretty much need a car.

[lentil_soup]

the roads are really great, they're kept in great shape. The train, although Madrid centric is amazing as well, stupidly fast and not that expensive anymore.

[rmason]

I recommend Madrid as well. I still haven't made it to Barcelona but I did visit the Spanish Riviera also known as the Costa del Sol. I stayed in Torremolinos where a lot of English winter and there were a lot of American sailors in the bars as well. Its a short distance to Malaga which was interesting.

Also went West and caught a boat to Tangiers in Morocco for a day trip. It was my first time experiencing culture shock. Tangiers was so different from either America or Europe. I made friends with two Danish soldiers and the three of us explored the Casbah together. It was also the first (and last!) time that I ate a sheep's eyeball! Little kids everywhere were begging for money. I understood perfectly why they spoke to me in English. But when they found out my friends were from Denmark they switched to speaking perfect Danish! These kids knew a smattering of a dozen languages or more.

[nextos]

I also prefer Madrid, which I believe is really under-rated, but Barcelona is superb as well.

Sadly, Barcelona is a bit too hyped and gentrified. It suffers from the same kind of issues SF has.

Both are great in terms of access to an inexpensive talent pool.

[electrozav]

Tech workers here are paid so much less than they should be; there's tons of unemployment only to earn 15k/yr when theyre at work. Salaries like this are a joke and should rise

[raverbashing]

No, your avg tech worker is not going to be making 15k/yr. Maybe around 40k/yr and that would be an "average" salary for a non-senior position.

[narag]

No, your avg tech worker is not going to be making 15k/yr. Maybe around 40k/yr and that would be an "average" salary for a non-senior position.

Both of you are wrong for different reasons. The truth is more nuanced.

First, Madrid is very different from the rest of the country. Salaries are higher, still half of what our neighbors of the north have. 15k/20k sounds like a rest-of-the-country average.

Even in Madrid 40k€ is far from average, that it's more likely 28k.

40 is the salary for a very senior o very specialized programmer/analyst.

But there's a caveat that makes you closer to reality for Madrid and it's if you add forced pension and health insurance that the employer pays. It's around 40% on top of the raw salary, so someone earning 30k is really costing 42k to the employer.

After income tax, those 30k become 24k :(

[mpeg]

What a weird take to defend tech salaries in Spain, I'd love to move but the very top salaries for my level cap around 80-90k EUR so it'd be quite a big drop even compared to the UK

[harperlee]

Where do you read a defense of anything? This is not a "weird take", just a statement of a fact (may it be true or false): that the average is ~40k and not ~15k (it is currently illegal to pay less than 15.876 euros per year).

[raverbashing]

As the other comment said, it is not a defense

But be aware that the London salaries upper tail is wider, possibly brought up by the quant firms (which are a different kind of company than most are accustomed)

levels.fyi gives 112kE as the median and 200kE/90% for London vs around 60kE for the median and 90kE/90% (pretax for both)

[mpeg]

Levels.fyi is always very inflated for anything outside of FAANG – to the point where it's not realistic

Glassdoor lists the average for SWEs for Madrid at 35k€ vs London at £66k (76k€) which even accounting for cost of living is quite a big difference

[aerhardt]

I’m glad more and more people are realizing. Preferring it over Barcelona is very personal; I completely get people who prefer a coastal city as beautiful as the Ciudad Condal. But Madrid was underrated for ages. It’s sunny, beautiful, safe, fun, imperial. Luckily it’s been booming for a while now.

[noduerme]

Madrid: They don't have a river, a beach or ancient ruins. What they have is a living city and people who love it.

[narag]

Madrid: They don't have a river, a beach or ancient ruins.

We do have a river, but if it doesn't seem much to you, take the train south and in half an hour you reach Aranjuez:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aranjuez

There you have the Tagus river and gorgeous gardens.

[eb0la]

Ancient ruins? we have an Egiptian Temple near the Royal Palace https://maps.app.goo.gl/xUrFWZwBkuDCTE5W7

[Xenoamorphous]

What about Manzanares river.

[noduerme]

Sure. It's kind of a creek like the Los Angeles river. The point is that the city of Madrid is not built around rivers (like NYC or London or Prague).

[kuu]

I get your point, but that's not exactly the case. Madrid is built there not by coincidence, there are a lot of underground rivers that cross the region, but then the city was built on top of them.

See here: https://www-canaldeisabelsegunda-es.translate.goog/-/madrid-...

Original: https://www.canaldeisabelsegunda.es/-/madrid-la-ciudad-edifi...

And about ruins, they are, but they are also hidden: https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muralla_cristiana_de_Madrid

:)

[noduerme]

Amazing! At Cava Baja 10 there's a remnant of the wall... and I never knew, I stay at the hotel across the street whenever I'm in Madrid and face that building.

Ironically, my comment about ruins, rivers, etc, I lifted from a sign in the lobby of that very hotel. And here they are sitting on top of it ;)

[pvaldes]

There is stuff to see and do in Madrid for months, but Madrid is the center in a cobweb of roads. This means that maybe 40% of the country or so is reachable from here in a reasonable time.

Distances in Spain are different than in US. Some cities are connected from here in an interval of less than two hours (one-way) by fast train AVE so reserving one day to explore another city as a bonus is doable with some extra work. This comprises Valencia, Salamanca, Burgos or Cordoba. You could basically go from one point to the other coin of Iberia in a day by train if you don't mind to burn a day looking at the landscape. Or sleep in the train and wake up in a different coastal city in a different Sea. Is just a question of money and planning.

In the same way if you go to Barcelona I would strongly advise to explore near destinations in Pyrenees or the South of France also.

[mjrbrennan]

I loved them both for different reasons, I went last year for the first time. As another commenter said Madrid felt very imperial, and as you say was beautiful, clean, and walkable. Barcelona felt more arty and had a great coastal vibe to it. I would go back to either in a heartbeat!

[singleshot_]

Hot in the summer. Killer nightlife. It will not take a tourist long to figure out the point of siesta.

[Xenoamorphous]

We moved to Madrid a few years ago. Summers are incredibly long and unbearable, to be honest, and it's not getting better. We have a 2 year old daughter and it sucks not being able to take her to the park for weeks because it's scorching hot.

Other than that, we like the city, and especially our neighbourhood.

[wageslave99]

> The point of siesta

Nobody takes siestas in Spain but the elderly, children and people without A/C in hot zones in summer, and I suppose in some rural towns as well.

[dathos]

That’s 80% of the country you’re describing there. I don’t know anyone who doesn’t do a siesta in summer, and elderly people continue throughout the year

[wageslave99]

You don't know anybody that don't do siesta when on holidays, not during normal working periods.

In the cities, people do not stop working midday to nap. Now if you are talking about rural towns, that is another thing.

[pezezin]

I have met many foreigners from Northern countries who made fun of siesta... until they stayed in Spain for a summer, then they understood it very quickly xD

[traceroute66]

> I had a great time in Barcelona, but I'd recommend Madrid over Barcelona in a heartbeat.

The trouble with Barcelona these days is the tourists have ruined it. Both the tourists themselves, and the city itself pandering to the tourists.

I avoid the place like the plague these days.

[outime]

Also worth mentioning the growing concern about security, which worsens each year: https://www.barcelona.cat/infobarcelona/en/tema/security-and...

[mholm]

I'd recommend Valencia in addition to Madrid. I can't say I enjoyed Barcelona that much, it felt too touristy. Valencia had a wonderful balance of tourism, low prices, food, and waterfront.

[nailer]

Honestly, they’re all great. Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia, Seville and Bilbao.

I had almost no idea about Spain before I moved to Europe and soon realised that it is a friendly place with amazing reasonably priced food and some of the most amazing artwork. Every new city has these qualities and adds its own stories and beautiful architecture.

Also Spain is to gin and tonic what New York is to pizza and Australia/New Zealand are to coffee: they did not invent it, but they certainly perfected it. a giant fish bowl of gin mare and good tonic water filled with ice and maybe some rosemary for scent.

[pezezin]

I am from Spain and your last paragraph made me chuckle.

Not that long ago gin and tonic was considered an old person's drink and there were very few brands available, but 10~15 years ago it exploded in popularity. All of sudden you could find a million brands of gin and another million of tonic water, even in small villages, and bartenders started to take its preparation quite seriously.

And of course I have several friends who brag about drinking it before it was cool xD

[bdjsiqoocwk]

Seconded. I lived in Madrid for 5 years. Best years of my life. Eventually I moved to London for work and my quality of life took a hit.

[inferiorhuman]

I preferred Madrid as well, however as far as museums go I would make a trip to Barcelona just for MACBA.

[borlanco]

For tips, commentary and insight about visiting Madrid, and the rest of Spain, this Youtube channel [0] is a gold mine.

James and Yoly really enjoy living here in Madrid, and they explain the good and the bad of our culture and customs. No bullsh*t, warts and all.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/@spainrevealed

[lionkor]

Which time of year would you recommend?

[tgv]

Spring or autumn. Summer is simply too hot.

I preferred it over Barcelona, too.

[danieldisu]

March - early June or Mid September - November

Avoid July and August, horrible heat and most people have left the city

[severino]

> Avoid July and August, horrible heat and most people have left the city

You mean it's bad that you don't have to wait in lines or get into crowded spaces?

[telesilla]

There are still tourists who for some weird reason come in the worst heat. Bring a hat.

[singleshot_]

Also sleep during most of the afternoon. Everything is open late.