[Turing_Machine]

Unless there's absolutely no alternative, and it's something I desperately need, I basically won't buy anything that says "call for pricing" or some such, because I interpret that as "call so one of our trained liars (i.e., salesmen) can figure out how hard we can screw you".

In many cases I'd even pay a premium to avoid talking to one of those people.

[satvikpendem]

You're not the target market, the CTO, CIO, or business development representatives are. So many developers say they won't ever buy "call for pricing" software, like, yeah, they know you won't, in fact that's what they bank on.

[Sharlin]

And the execs won’t really worry about "how hard the salesmen can screw them", they know the rules of the game and understand that negotiations are negotiations. It’s a negotiator’s job to try to get a good deal, and that works both ways.

[satvikpendem]

Yes. Devs who don't know sales are obviously not their demographic, they'll be speaking to layers of other biz dev people before they even get to the execs, and each one knows exactly how to extract concessions and discounts, and the opposing salesperson knows exactly how much of a discount they can give. In this way, it is much more of an efficient market than most devs think.

Devs' reaction to all this is honestly the same as when a non-technical exec tells a dev why they "can't just get it done in a day, it shouldn't be that hard right?" People have their own competencies and are usually blind to others'.

[Turing_Machine]

> You're not the target market

I own the business and I buy stuff all the time, just not from places that say "call for pricing".

I've got too many other things going on to waste time listening to some lame pitch from a guy who was probably selling shoes last week.

If they don't want to sell me stuff because I'm "not their target market", that's fine with me.

I'll buy it elsewhere.

I'm not sure what crazoid B-school theory says that you should make it harder for customers to buy your stuff, but I'm pretty sure that's a really bad theory.

[satvikpendem]

You are continuing to show exactly why you're not the target market. Those "call for pricing" companies are targeting large enterprises, not one person owned businesses. That you self select out of their market is exactly what they want. And yes, sometimes companies do make it harder to buy stuff simply because they can make more money and save on customer support and other operational costs if they have a few large companies paying them millions over having many smaller ones paying thousands.

[Turing_Machine]

> You are continuing to show exactly why you're not the target market.

You're continuing to justify the role of salesmen, which is an essentially parasitic role that results in higher prices for everyone.

If my company should get big enough that I have to hire someone to order stuff, I don't want that person wasting time on the phone with salesmen either. Every minute he spends on the phone listening to a sales pitch is a minute he's not actually doing the job I'm paying him for.

"Target market"... pfft.

[satvikpendem]

Okay, it is clear you've never done sales in your life. Even for the products I make I still have to do sales to convince bigger clients to buy them. If you don't like the game, don't play it, but don't think you're somehow above the game. I will point you to another comment I made regarding the arrogance of developers sometimes when it comes to other disciplines and thinking that others are somehow stupider than themselves [0]. Regardless, I don't think this conversation will yield more productive insights. Goodbye.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40065114#40067754

[Turing_Machine]

> Okay, it is clear you've never done sales in your life.

What was your first clue? The fact that I consider salesmen to be parasites?

>If you don't like the game, don't play it, but don't think you're somehow above the game.

Oh, I am totally above the game, because I will not talk to you or your fellow salesmen. I will not call you. Ever. If you cold-call me, I'll hang up and block your number. If you show up in person, you'll be asked to leave and informed that any future visits will be considered trespass and result in a call to the towing company to have your car removed and a call to the police to have you removed.

I thought that was made clear.

Is this what you call "negotiation"? Because you suck at it, dude. srsly.

You are in the business of conning people into paying a higher price for goods and services for which they would otherwise have paid less. Every penny of your commission is ripped right out of the customer's pocket, for zero value added.

[AlexeyBelov]

Don't waste your time, he literally works in sales.

[pid-1]

CTO in a financial institution here.

I don't talk to sales.

[satvikpendem]

It depends on how large the institution is and how high up you are. At smaller institutions, C-level execs absolutely talk to sales, I've sold products to them myself.

[dheera]

Yeah on multiple occasions I've e-mailed said businesses and said "This other business has it for $X. Beat that and I'll buy yours. I don't have time for a call."

I want products at my doorstep in exchange for $. I don't want a goddamn coffee chat.