[yareal]

Hmmmm.... on the one hand, I see and understand the argument you are making regarding the use of state violence. On the other hand, I don't think most folk use that as the only difference between military and civilian.

The police are subject to civilian law, cannot, for instance, be deserters. The police lack training and aren't a national force with unified standards. The police can just quit at any time. The police, in many places, are subject to civilian oversight and review.

The differences I think are still material, even though they do have the monopoly of state violence against the people of their nation.

[thaumasiotes]

> The police are subject to civilian law

That would be nice. In fact the police are immune to many laws.

> The police lack training

Huh?

> and aren't a national force with unified standards.

This is no part of what anyone thinks "military" means. Blackwater isn't a national force either.

> The police can just quit at any time.

This does not affect the nature of what they do.

> The police, in many places, are subject to civilian oversight and review.

Ditto.

Imagine you're explaining the police to someone from the year 1600. Your primary goal is to convince this person that they aren't soldiers. What would you say?