[skhunted]

And yet they do interfere and are actively engaged in sowing dissent, discord, and wacky ideas by utilizing the power of social media. Your comment is at odds with reality. The rise of people being against something as obviously beneficial as the polio vaccine is an indication of just how powerful disinformation campaigns can be.

[raxxorraxor]

The reactance of those against vaccines had completely different sources. It wasn't China or Russia that are responsible here, far from it.

They of course noticed and certainly tried to reinforce that message, because they indeed became aware of the split. But the initial reason was a lack of trust in media and domestic politics and not some external propaganda channel.

And expect this to get much worse if you now increase surveillance. That said, NPR just suspended a journalist that did notice some form of propaganda from domestic sources, which might explain why people were distrustful in the first place.

In fact, you might be a victim of propaganda. Maybe read up on it.

[skhunted]

The effectiveness of the polio vaccine has been demonstrated for many decades. That now polio is on the rise and the number of morons who are opposed to that vaccine is due to “propaganda”. State sponsored information warfare has taken what was once kooky ideas and spread them in such a way that a significant portion of the population buys into them.

It is wise for you too to read up on state sponsored disinformation campaigns. Obviously the U.S. and others are involved in such campaigns. Obviously the U.S. government and institutions like the NYT have collaborated to sell a version of events. For instance the NYT endorsing the invasion of Iraq.

[raxxorraxor]

The polio vaccine in particular had some hiccups where people got infected with polio due to insufficiently neutered pathogens in the past. Today the vaccine is created differently and this isn't a problem anymore. But still this is a reason why the vaccine might have a bad reputation in some places in the world.

That is has returned to developed countries has probably other issues instead of propaganda. But there aren't any propaganda campaigns in western nations that disincentive vaccination that would create the need for government to spy on your devices. These alleged propaganda campaigns would be easy to find, no? Since they target a broad audience?

[skhunted]

You just can’t agree that being opposed to the polio vaccine is entirely idiotic. It’s amazing. It’s been an effective vaccine for over 50 years. There is overwhelming scientific and statistical evidence that it is a good thing and that it should be required. Being opposed to it is entirely moronic.

That people like you are willing to rationalize anti-vaccine sentiments on the polio vaccine is quite illuminating. And you suggest of me that I’m the victim of propaganda!

[raxxorraxor]

That is not the essence of any statement I had made, I recommend you read again.

You make the argument that because there are people believing X, we must allow the surveillance of our devices.

[skhunted]

I have made no such argument. My original comment above was a response to someone saying that Russia/China don’t need to engage in what I call information warfare. My response was that they do engage in it.

And your first paragraph above was to rationalize why some people are opposed to the polio vaccine. You just couldn’t equivocally state that this is an example of people being duped into believing something that is entirely idiotic. It’s not the main point you are trying to get across but it’s worth addressing this since you suggested I might be a victim of propaganda. I think, in our exchange, you are more likely to be a victim of propaganda since you can’t just say, “yeah those people are being duped”.

[hmmmcurious1]

China and Russia are not responsible despite actively enforcing the lack of trust of the people for their governments and authorities with disinformation. Got it, got any more gems to drop on us plebs?

[zrn900]

No external force created the John Birch society that transformed into modern Trumpers. Its purely an American thing.

And, the investigations into election meddling ended with finding out that external forces spent some $100,000 on bad Facebook ads before the 2016 election. Not even a drop in a bucket. A simple blog network that the American conservative capital funds among the tens of thousands that they fund has more reach than such an ad.

What is even worse, even non-conservatives do it for money and make millions out of such activities:

https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/50...

[skhunted]

Trump openly asked for Russia to hack the DNC. And they did so. Cleary Russia interfered in our election. I don’t blame them for doing so. We interfere in other nations’ elections but one should not deny the obvious.

[zrn900]

> Trump openly asked for Russia to hack the DNC. And they did so.

Says the Democratic side. They are a party in the political fight in the US and they cannot be taken as an objective source. This includes all the 'inquiry committees' that are propped up in the congress and senate whenever the party that wants to persecute the other side has enough majority.