[MSFT_Edging]

> The social divisions that the UK And US currently find themselves in could be attributed in part to this steady drip of caustic interference.

Please look away from the curtain hiding rising wealth inequality, cost of living, and the financialization of daily needs. There are no material explanation for the rising contradictions. It is simply our boogymen misleading our population.

It is good we as a society make bets on housing! Who needs to sleep under a roof when you can own shares!

[another2another]

I agree with you that things are currently quite bad, and need to get better. From my UK centric viewpoint, over the last decade Brexit, climate change and the pandemic have proven fertile ground for diverting peoples' attention away from societal issues that have not been addressed, or have even exacerbated by wilful neglect of basic services by Government.

But I have the feeling that that well of constant culture wars has run dry, and people are becoming more wary of being drawn into endless fruitless debates about these things. And after looking up form their smartphones they've finally seen all of the signs for Food Banks, noticed that the weather has gone insane and that the price of biscuits is inhumane and asked themselves 'how did we get here?' 'how do we get back to a better place?' and will hopefully agitate again for a better society.

Swings and roundabouts.

[theossuary]

I'm confused by your comment. First you call climate change a distraction; then you list it as something people are finally becoming aware of? The endless debates were to try and stop it. The population not being able to is just a reflection of the majority.

It's odd how people are trying to divide politics into "culture war" and real problems; it wasn't that long ago climate change was considered a culture war. Labeling something a "culture war" is just the first kneejerk reaction from the right when they appose something.

[another2another]

Creating a culture war is often the first reaction of the right to things they don't like in order to blunt their effect.

"loonie lentil eating lefties", "greenies", "mad Greta" (I'm making these up, but I'm sure I'm sure there's plenty of similar examples). People used to be comforted by these ad-hominems, and it allowed them to continue buying aspirational 4x4 off-road vehicles and 3 flights abroad a year without touching their conscious. They could laugh, share memes, ignore news stories about forest fires in Canada in December or massive loss of ice shelves in Antarctica and carry on as usual.

But as the pot starts to boil harder I get the feeling people are looking away from these distractions and beginning to look more critically at the information they're getting, and beginning to wonder if it's not such a funny joke after all.

[Loughla]

>But I have the feeling that that well of constant culture wars has run dry,

Honestly, I don't believe that statement. I think many people equate the culture war issues to the issues later in that second paragraph with the economy and climate (if they even see an issue there). If our leaders are failing at [insert culture war issue here], then that explains why they're failing at [insert economic issue here].

[MSFT_Edging]

So the culture wars are very interesting. The core of the the idea of a culture war is that class is divided by culture, rather than position in society.

You can look to old propaganda from the early 20th century in Italy and Germany where characters would speak to this. They would deny class lines based on wealth or capital holdings and insist the true class was defined by in and out cultural identifiers.

These culture wars we've been seeing are not organic. They're seeded by orgs that can make money off the outrage. It might be dramatic sounding to say, but the increasing prevalence of culture wars is indicative of the rising tide of fascism. Our societies have done a lot to weaken unions and redefine the meaning of class.

Because we redefined class boundaries to be cultural, we've created an artificial alignment, where say a working class queer urbanite and and a working class non-queer rural worker get shafted by many of the same mechanisms, but are seen to be in different stations because one has access to a bus and the other drives a pickup.

At the end of the day, material issues are what hurt people, but now the rural working class will blame the urbanite, rather than the capitalist that has strip-mined their town, and the urbanite will blame the backwards bumpkin rather than the capitalist that has strip-mined their city.

[verteu]

Since 1990, NYC rent has grown at 3.4%/yr, wages have grown at 3.4%/yr, and minimum wage has grown at 4.7%/yr.

Doesn't seem too terrible to me?

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CUURA101SEHA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/ENUC356240010SA https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/STTMINWGNY

[MSFT_Edging]

While I wont argue pointlessly, I am curious what the median values look like for these stats.

In the US, averaging falls short due to said inequality. A smaller group of people have vastly increased wealth, while others stay stagnant. This moves the needle for certain statistics that don't give a full view of the issue.

Its easy to say "hey the average is fine" when you're talking about NYC where stock brokers and high end real estate really drags up that average.

From the 2020 census, the average income was 107k, where the median income was 67k.

[verteu]

EDIT: Seems the best metric is "avg rent burden", the ratio of median_rent/median_income.

It increased from 25%->27% from 2001-2024 [a].

Far from a catastrophe, though there is an upward trend since 1999 [b].

There are spikes upwards and downwards, and I'd guess the upward spikes make much better clickbait.

[a] https://cre.moodysanalytics.com//app/uploads/2024/02/image-1... , from [4]

[b] https://www.moodys.com/web/en/us/about/insights/data-stories...

--

Yeah, I couldn't find localize median wages, so I thought minimum wage would be a decent lower-bound.

Nationally, the easiest numbers to find are Wolfram Alpha's [1]:

Median wage (2001-2020): $27060 -> $46310 (2.9%/yr)

Mean wage (2001-2020): $34020 -> $61900 (3.2%/yr)

Bottom 10% wage (2001-2020): -> $18140 -> $27340 (2.2%/yr)

Mean->Median gap isn't too large, but the bottom 10% is pretty bad.

I think there was a temporary spike in rent burden [2] [3] which quickly reversed [4].

[1] eg: https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=median+US+wage+2022

[2] https://www.moodysanalytics.com/about-us/press-releases/2023...

[3] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DP04ACS006037

[4] https://cre.moodysanalytics.com/insights/market-insights/q4-...