[crabmusket]

This entry in Matt Stoller's newsletter goes into a lot of detail on how this works: https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/explosive-new-documents-u...

> It’s easy to believe the worst about Live Nation, they have a bad reputation. But the reason I buy this particular story is because it is consistent with the behavior of many dominant middlemen firms in our economy, from pharmacy benefit managers to Amazon to big banks securitizing mortgages in the financial crisis. As monopoly scholar Kate Judge noted, such dominant middlemen use fees and kickbacks, hidden via a complex maze of subsidiaries and overlapping lines of business, to extract in ways that are hard to see. In Live Nation’s case, it’s clear they are generating a great deal of revenue, but somehow show low margins for many of their products. Hiding the price hikes is important, because monopolization is harder to prove that way.

[zer00eyz]

This is a pretty good write up. It's off the mark on one point.

The artists aren't upset with their take. If they are it's because their own management has their hands deep in pockets, or just plain suck. Live Nation knows dam well who butters the bread.

The history of Live Nation is that it is the decedent of bill graham presents. You might want to go look at the history of bill. There is a statement about his funeral, and it having the longest lines of stretched black limos in SF history. It's probably true. Bill made everyone money, himself included as a "promoter" and every penny of that came from fans.

The music industry has been doing its own version of pay to win / loot boxes since the 70's. When they break up LN (if?) its just going to get worse as the greed is gonna just be right out in the open. The lesson of the last decade is that you dont need LN/TM to cover it up. Artist given choice will make tickets non transferable and just auction them off... the new starting bid will be the same as the current all in price.

It's greedy fucks all the way down.

P.S. As I have said elsewhere in this thread, I speak from having spent a few years working in the industry. Find someone who works in "music" like that and it's the same nonsense as game devs, long hours and shit money cause people are passionate...

[kelnos]

> The lesson of the last decade is that you dont need LN/TM to cover it up. Artist given choice will make tickets non transferable and just auction them off... the new starting bid will be the same as the current all in price.

That's fine, though, and arguably better. Right now the consensus among concert-goers seems to be, "man, this is all expensive, but looks like I'm getting screwed by [TicketMaster | the venue]; I bet $ARTIST thinks this sucks too". For artists who want to charge an arm and a leg to see them perform live, pricing a lot of people out, that ire should be directed at the artists, where it truly belongs.

And maybe that drives some fans away, and that's what artists need to see happen. But I don't believe that all artists who play ball with LN/TM are greedy like that. Certainly some are, and maybe even most are. But those who are not... well, they should be able to play in huge venues across the country and charge less for admission if they want to.

[zer00eyz]

>> pricing a lot of people out, that ire should be directed at the artists

https://harrystylestour.us/vip/

Chris Brown is 1000 bucks too... (you can find that link with ease, and the funny blow back)

I know you're looking at that and thinking "these must not be that popular".

The concert industry has been harpooning whales since the 90's and the internet only made it more lucrative.

>> But I don't believe that all artists who play ball with LN/TM are greedy like that.

Touring, merch, licensing... These are the ways artists make money. Music is basically free. Price is a function of popularity, no one is going to leave money on the table, ever.

>> charge an arm and a leg to see them perform live, pricing a lot of people out ... be able to play in huge venues across the country and charge less for admission if they want to

This is from 89, from a mid level artist at a small venue: https://archive.is/moWdH

Sometimes the prices are so dam high that you only even care about half the venue and then you paper over the rest... It's kind of common for a large venue to just get asses in seats and sell beer and tshrits if they can.