[naasking]

> Mental illness could also be defined by a person's ability to function in their community and social constructs.

No, I think mental illness should be defined relative to a person's capacity to change behaviour volitionally or in response to feedback signals, like a scolding or rehab or imprisonment. People who are mentally ill do not respond to feedback signals like this, they have little volition over their behaviours without significant pharmaceutical or other interventions first. It's like asking someone with Tourette's to stop having verbal tics as compared to someone who just likes swearing. There's a fundamental difference in volitional control and responsiveness to feedback.

[faeriechangling]

So is being gay, transgender, an outspoken women, or left-handed mental illness since such people do not, by all appearance and objective measures, have the capacity to change their behaviours volitionally without for instance chemically castrating gay men or lobotomising women?

There's two big things wrong with this definition. First is that it makes non-compliance a pathology and assumes society is right and the patient is wrong. Second is that pays zero heed to ethics and what is actually good for the supposedly mentally ill person, it just labels them mentally ill if they don't do what people want without thinking of if that's best for them.

Of course, that's not THAT different from how mental disorders are defined in practice.

[naasking]

> First is that it makes non-compliance a pathology and assumes society is right and the patient is wrong.

My post said absolutely nothing about society or non-compliance, it spoke only about whether the patient can respond volitionally. Gay people absolutely can choose not have gay sex, it's just wrong to expect that. Outspoken women absolutely can choose to be silent, it's just wrong to expect that. Left handed people absolutely can choose to write with their non-dominant hand, it's just wrong to expect that. There is clear volitional control here.

I made this very clear with the example of Tourettes vs. someone who just likes to swear. The person with Tourettes cannot simply choose to not have verbal tics and then enact that choice, but the person who just likes swearing absolutely can. It's just a physical impossibility to regulate behaviour based on feedback or internal motivations.

> Second is that pays zero heed to ethics and what is actually good for the supposedly mentally ill person, it just labels them mentally ill if they don't do what people want without thinking of if that's best for them.

I have no idea what you mean. There's nothing unethical about pointing out that the mentally ill have a distinct behaviour in that they do not respond to specific kinds of feedback. It is in fact the starting point for ethical treatment of mental illness.

[throwaway15532]

> No, I think mental illness should be defined relative to a person's capacity to change behaviour volitionally or in response to feedback signals, like a scolding or rehab or imprisonment. People who are mentally ill do not respond to feedback signals like this, they have little volition over their behaviours without significant pharmaceutical or other interventions first.

Yeah, this is exactly what someone without mental illness will never understand. Awareness is not static. It ebbs and flows. Sometimes I know that I'm saying/doing something but completely unaware of what it is. I have to ask someone else about my actions/words once I regain awareness. However, I do hold a full time position and can respond to feedback signals depending on the day. I was told growing up to think of consequences of my actions before doing it. Yeah right, for that to happen I need to understand what I'm doing let alone think through the consequences. Pharmaceutical or other interventions aren't a silver bullet to all mental illness issues. Yes, they do help and curb some symptoms but you can't predict when someone will have an episode. And they come with their own side effects. Their effectiveness also depends on the person being treated. Not everyone with depression responds equally well to anti-depressants. It's much more complicated than you think.