[hereonout2]

This is true for almost all of us though? Nearly everyone has to work at least 5x 8 hour days a week - some much more. Some have complex family needs that must be attended to before any personal time can even be considered.

There is always some time though, it just needs to be made and scheduled and worked on. We can choose to veg out in front of Netflix, or doom scroll, or peruse hacker news, but we can also choose to do something else possibly more fulfilling.

Of course not as good as having more disposable money and fewer work commitments but painting it as an all or nothing situation feels very defeatist.

[vundercind]

Staring at screens all day is weirdly taxing.

My wife used to have a much harder job than mine. Social, active, moving around, thinking on her feet, lots of prep, high stakes sometimes, somewhat abusive environment. She left it for WFH and a non-programming computer-heavy office job.

After a couple weeks, one day she said to me, “Now I understand why you’re so worn-out after work hours”

I’ve felt a lot more refreshed and ready to do stuff after working physical jobs or (especially) lightly-physical jobs that involve little or no computer use, than after a day of cushy office work.

It’s not the sitting. Standing desks and walking breaks don’t help much. Computer work is just bizarrely draining.

[lumost]

I spent many years feeling guilty about this. Particularly during covid when, on paper, there wasn't a lot else going on.

Anecdotally, the thing to remember is that you brain is an organ - Even professional trainers can't do their workouts more then 3-4 hours a day. Why would one expect that the brain can magically work 8-10 hours at max intensity?

If you observe any job, workers have downtime - in the office, this would happen organically. Teams would get bored and chit chat, hallway conversations would go on too long etc.

With WFH - it's entirely possible to work 8-12 hours a day. This is the mental equivalent of endurance racing, burnout is inevitable at this pace - just like injury would be for athletes trying to train at that schedule.

[bigstrat2003]

That's the exact opposite of my experience. I grew up on a farm, and as you might imagine it involved hard physical labor daily. I would 100x rather do my current job as a systems engineer. It's so much easier than working on the farm that I feel guilty sometimes, because I know that I work 1/10 as hard as people making 1/5 of what I do.

[kbenson]

They're not saying it's harder, just that it leaves you not wanting to do other things when you're done, and in a way that doesn't map to traditional physical fatigue, which is why it's "weirdly" taxing and not just taxing.

Mental and emotional fatigue accrue and exhibit themselves differently sometimes, but often matter quite a bit in the end. Plenty of people choose to leave well paid office jobs for more physical jobs that pay less. Unless you think they have a mental illness or are stupid, presumably they did it for a good reason.

[bigstrat2003]

I realize what they're saying. I'm saying I don't have the same experience.

[hereonout2]

I just paid to get my lawn cleared for a new patio. A guy single handedly shovelled 8 tonnes of clay soil into a skip over two days.

He charged much less than I earned in the same two days configuring AWS lambda functions. It's hard to imagine I had the more exhausting job.

[krumpet]

I used to be a high school teacher and, though not as physically taxing as working on a farm, I feel the same about how much easier my current tech job is.

Teaching is just sooooo exhausting.

[mlyle]

It depends upon the person and the exact situation, but it's a fundamentally different kind of tired. My students marvel at this.

They can tinker with mechanical things for a 12 hour crunch session before a robotics competition, and end up achy, hangry, and physically tired. But it might not be as exhausting as as an intense 1.5 hour math class or chasing a bug staring at screens for a couple of hours.

[hesviiggvv]

Computer work is so far outside the realm of what we as humans have been doing as “work” since the dawn of time. I wonder how significant that is? Could we be evolutionarily or culturally ill-suited to working this way?

[Kubrick2001]

Yes

[polishdude20]

I wonder if it's to do with always focusing on the same distance. When doing a job where you're walking, your eyes are constantly focusing at different distances and taking in lots of information that's more rich than any website can give you.

Maybe constant screen time just tells your body "hey you can relax, nothing is around to attack you"

[hollerith]

Why would "hey you can relax, nothing is around to attack you" wear you out?

[polishdude20]

It signals to your body that you can sleep? So you stop producing whatever it is that makes you alert, attentive, energized.

[hollerith]

Sure, but if I slept or rested during working hours, I'd be more energetic in after working hours, not less.

[blackSnake]

I've noticed that too. Its an unnatural thing for the body to do, interacting with a computer or other digital device for that length of time. I've never walked away from using the computer feeling charged and rejuvenated, even when working on something I enjoy. Not mentally, I am referring to a whole body feeling.

I believe the vibrations emanating from digital devices is partly incompatible with human biology, so the body spends significant energy trying to maintain its default "state" so to speak, which is why it feels draining to use computer for long stretches of time. If you read a book for hours on end, it would not have the same effect so its not purely the sedentary nature of it.

In qi-gong practice, there is a concept known as "drawing" where you can increase your strength and vitality from being in proximity to different objects. For example, if I put you in a room full of plants and natural sunlight, you WILL become physically stronger instantly. If I put you in a server computer room, you will become physically weaker instantly. The body is constantly adjusting its "aura".

I don't know the science behind it, but it is easy to experiment with. Have someone resist a push while in a wide stance while holding in their left hand

1. a phone in their hand turned on

2. hold a living plant

3. glass of water

4. a battery

See if you can feel the difference in your ability to resist the push. It will change based on the object in your hand.

There is some challenges:

1. the pusher has to have correct form and measured strength. By correct form, it means you know how to correctly use your body to create an effective push (standing too close to not engage your legs, only using your arms to push, etc) Measured strength means similar force each time to have a base to compare to.

2. the pushee has to maintain a "neutral" state and provide the same amount of resistance on every push, to maintain the "control" group.

3. enough sensitivity as the pusher to feel the different levels of resistance provided by the pushee. On some pushes, the pushee might feel "heavier" or "lighter"

4. Patience. Whatever object you are holding has an effect on your body and most people cannot feel it initially. In fact, it takes years to cultivate enough sensitivity to feel subtle changes.

I think there has been some research on this topic in regards to wearing synthetic clothing made of nylon or polyester.

[beryilma]

This is absolute nonsense.

Plants, nature, etc. will for sure make people feel better compared to sitting in front of a computer. They will not make you instantly stronger or weaker... I guarantee that no double-blind experiment will ever show such effects.

[wrycoder]

Well, not entirely. What you hold subtly affects your response to a push, and the effect can be dramatic. The pusher, with eyes closed, will notice the difference.