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by amichlin 801 days ago
Again, former VCFederation (Mid Atlantic and National) volunteer here. I was only a volunteer when this donation came in and was part of the team that made sure this donation got a good home later on. No one involved at either end of this is still actively involved with VCF, so the OP is taking an organization task to because of a lack of institutional knowledge. I offered to privately explain what really happened on Twitter (X) and was blocked as a result and made out to be accusing OP of being a liar. I only want to interject the facts as I know them and maybe offer up a couple of opinions.

When it was donated, the policy was take everything that anyone wanted to donate. So many people were thrilled to volunteer time to "rescue" just about anything, a laudable goal, and very few people volunteered to spend time to sort through the donations, even if only to make it fit in a finite space.

The structure at the time was a national (still unelected to this day) board and an executive director. My role, at the time of the donation, was as a volunteer who spent an insane amount of hours working in the warehouse to find ways to fit things and count things so that they could be put out for surplus sale. At one point, the warehouse contained over 60 Commodore 64 floppy drives. But this wasn't hoarding, this was being buried in unopened boxes and no one keeping track of what to keep and what to rehome or even what was in the warehouse.

Up until about 3 years ago, if you went to a VCFestival East and purchased "VCF Surplus", it was because I and one or two others spent countless hours trying to count what was in the warehouse. All of that money raised was earmarked to warehouse improvements, I might add. We opened hundreds of boxes to count equipment and try to sort what paper was and wasn't archived and even built a library that was intended to be moved to a climate controlled space (I believe it still has not been moved, but it is at least accessible as a library instead of hundreds of closed boxes of paper). Paper that was needed to be archived was archived. Paper that was considered important enough was added to the library. Paper that wasn't as important (like popular computer magazines) was offered over and over again to the membership. Almost everything found a good home. This, however, explains why the donation wasn't returned. It was parted out as part of a bigger solution and dealt with on a piece by piece basis. Having literally been there when the donation was made, it was clear that this was odds and ends that had long ago been checked for archiving. So this, if only in my opinion, was dumped on VCF as a convenient, free, storage opportunity. Does anyone really think it would have been donated to a warehouse without climate control by the ocean if there was any hint of archiving needed? By one of the most well known archive activists on the planet? Yet OP uses the implication that history has been lost to create unnecessary drama. No history has been lost and a lot of history has been saved. A lot of history is out in the world, even if maybe in private hands, instead of spoiling in a warehouse directly exposed to salt water air. And yes, climate control is being worked on, I hear donations are accepted, but do know that most of the stuff still in the warehouse was heading towards recycling or worse when it ended up in the warehouse.

The warehouse is now managed by an *elected* VCF Mid-Atlantic Steering Committee (something I originally proposed, co-wrote the bylaws, and was a founding member of). I don't know what they are and aren't doing now, but I do know none of them were involved with this mess. Taking the organization to task for a lack of institutional knowledge is fine, but ignoring primary facts stated by people who were there troubles me greatly. All the complaining blogs posts wont change the way the warehouse is run, but the membership is completely able to vote people in and out if they believe the warehouse is being mismanaged in any way. They are also always looking for new volunteers, if you are somewhat near Monmouth County New Jersey.

tl;dr: Nothing to see here. Just unnecessary drama.

4 comments

I think the silliest part about this “saga” is that Jason is leading a one-man boycott at his own detriment. He’s depriving himself of a social community meeting place for his passion because his donation to the organization that facilitates those meetups wasn’t put to some kind of completely unspecified use.

> A number of years later, I contacted the Vintage Computer Federation to ask how the magazines were doing, if they were part of a project, or if I needed to transfer them elsewhere.

If you read between the lines on that quote, it’s clear that Jason doesn’t even know what someone is supposed to do with all this stuff, but he called up years later in hopes that someone else came up with an idea.

If he wants the materials to be part of a project, he should have spent the time needed to make them into a project. But really, Jason doesn’t know what to do with them, that’s why he donated them in the first place.

It’s not much different than dropping off an attic full of miscellaneous paintings to the Met and expecting them to put them in an exhibit.

If you want to make a qualified donation, make a qualified donation. Write up a contract that tells the organization what it’s allowed to do with your donation. Otherwise, anything is fair game.

This has to be one of the lamest, or if you prefer "silliest", possible responses.

>If he wants the materials to be part of a project, he should have spent the time needed to make them into a project. But really, Jason doesn’t know what to do with them, that’s why he donated them in the first place.

>It’s not much different than dropping off an attic full of miscellaneous paintings to the Met and expecting them to put them in an exhibit.

>If you want to make a qualified donation, make a qualified donation. Write up a contract that tells the organization what it’s allowed to do with your donation. Otherwise, anything is fair game.

First, as he wrote and of course you read, that is indeed a lesson he has taken:

>"Finally, this is all relatively minor in terms of the work I do and projects I focus on, an event that brought me some fury but which has mostly played the part of filed under “life lessons”. [...] My conversations with people and organizations I shift materials to are much longer, much more involved, and with much more contingencies as a result of this event, and things are better for it.

So apparently he's doing exactly as you say in response. He, rightly or wrongly, felt he'd trusted where he shouldn't have and will be more explicit about expectations going forward. That's good?

Second, trying to shift to legalism from a social complaint is crappy. He never said it wasn't "fair game" or that he'd be talking to his lawyer or any such thing. He never even implies there was a contract to the contrary, that didn't have every "right" in the legal sense to do whatever they wished. It was a terms-free donation. But just because the law lets you do something doesn't mean you're free of social reactions. If people feel you've treated them badly, even if it is totally allowed, they may exercise their freedom to tell others about it and refuse to associate with you further. Others may then react in turn, or not depending on how they judge the event. "You didn't have a contract so haha too bad for you" is not the greatest take in the world.

For such a "silly" response from me, it's interesting that the author is doing exactly what I said he should do, as you pointed out. Doesn't sound all that silly to me if we all agree on that point.

But also, it's a bit surprising to me that a professional archivist didn't think of this possibility way before this incident occured, considering that pretty much every philanthropist organization on the planet handles gifting with stipulations and guardrails as a very well-known practice.

> If people feel you've treated them badly, even if it is totally allowed, they may exercise their freedom to tell others about it and refuse to associate with you further.

Related to this quote, I emphasize how my comment is in the context of the perspective of someone on the side of the organization. That person believes there wasn't malice involved and had some points that I thought were well-reasoned.

I am similarly free to criticize that person who is telling others about their bad experience. I'm free to say "that guy on Yelp who is boycotting Taco Bell forever because one franchise location gave him stale cinnamon twists is wack."

From the outside looking in it looks kind of ridiculous. Like, here's a guy with a picture of a bunch of unmarked plastic bins in his back yard next to a bunch of other discarded items like a Chevy Blazer, used tire, and some kind of rusty metal barrel, so forgive me for questioning whether these bins contain anything of value. And then there's another picture of the still-unmarked bins in a dingy looking warehouse full of also-unmarked over-stacked cardboard boxes, and the guy leaving his stuff there acts shocked that a place that looks like that didn't do a good job with preservation.

If you didn't know Jared was a well-known archivist you'd probably assume this was another case of my Grandma asking me to go through her record collection or take her fine china because they're "valuable."

> Paper that was needed to be archived was archived.

That's good to hear. So where might we find the archived versions of that materials in that donation?

>Again, former VCFederation (Mid Atlantic and National) volunteer here. I was only a volunteer when this donation came in and was part of the team that made sure this donation got a good home later on. No one involved at either end of this is still actively involved with VCF, so the OP is taking an organization task to because of a lack of institutional knowledge. I offered to privately explain what really happened on Twitter (X) and was blocked as a result and made out to be accusing OP of being a liar. I only want to interject the facts as I know them and maybe offer up a couple of opinions.

>and made out to be accusing OP of being a liar

I have no specific knowledge here at all, but I am capable of reading and remembering events <1 day ago. And you were here, on HN, absolutely calling him a liar [0]:

>"I was actually there. Nothing in this blog post is factual."

>"so I'll correct myself say almost the entirety of the blog post is false."

You called him a liar and now are trying to pull some /woe is me people are twisting my words/? As the top reply you never responded to said, it's perfectly conceivable this was all a result of a very poor series of communications. But you've spent a lot of words over the last 24h to try to cast shade on a well known apparently dedicated archivist sharing a very simple, straight forward personal experience he felt was negative and calling him a liar without actually addressing the substance. You don't show the communications didn't happen. You make appeals to incredulity ("Does anyone really think it would have been donated to a warehouse without climate control by the ocean if there was any hint of archiving needed") when according to the blog ("To make this donation, I paid for the containers, filled them, put many issues in bags, and then rented a truck to drive them the roughly 70 miles to the VCF headquarters in Wall, NJ. There I dropped them off and went home. This was roughly 2017.") yeah it does sound like he was serious about archiving it, and it's not at all clear that it would have been clear to him that dropping it off at the HQ would mean it would permanently live forever in a non-cc warehouse next to the ocean.

The original blog was pretty measured and to the point. Just his feelings, his perspective, and why he was making a choice to people who follow him rather then leaving it quiet. He's clearly still quite upset but didn't say the whole org was trash or that nobody should ever go. It may have all been a bad misunderstanding and leadership screw up that has left some bad feelings which would be too bad but can't always be fixed except maybe by time. But man are you doing a shitty job of making your case.

----

0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40007300

<bumps fist against heart>
No, I said the post was false. I never said that he was lying, but I will state for the record that he was given misinformation due to lack of institutional knowledge (I am no longer active in the institution for entirely other reasons) . I offered to privately fill him on the real story (at least as I knew it from first hand knowledge) and he chose to double down, so here we are.

I will also add, one last time, when he was dropping it off plenty of other people were dropping off at the same time. We did the best we could with the manpower we had, but nothing was thrown away and a everything was preserved to the best of our abilities. So the only sin we might be guilty of is not keeping paper in the tubs. I'm not sure what good paper in tubs does anyone, though. Libraries seem like a much better solution and we built one, as I already stated. Send some money to the VCFederation and they might help to climate control it. If you are local, volunteer.

> I never said that he was lying

but also

> Nothing in this blog post is factual.

Interesting take....

tbh, the abhorrent behavior of VCF employees (and former employees), as well as some of the commenters on Mr. Scott's page, has proved his point in spades that VCF East is a disgusting organization.
Hilarious that the 1st person other-side account of this bizarre cry for attention from Scott is being down-voted here.

Scott may feel he needs some attention-- so dredging up something he already posted a few years ago is somehow a good faith folksy rumination that will help people? I wish him well if he believes that.

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