[JohnMakin]

It has always fascinated me that the people migrating to oregon territory for the gold rush in the 1850's were some of the very very last people to ever see vast swaths of the United States in its pristine, natural state. I wonder if they had any clue that within a matter of a few decades it'd basically all be gone.

[samatman]

Referring to land the natives had inhabited for something like 15,000 years as "pristine" and "natural" is somewhat erasing their accomplishments, no?

Pristine and natural North America had mammoth, horses, and many other megafauna which were rapidly hunted to extinction. But somehow the American Indian evolved culturally, adapting to their environmental niches and cultivating the land to maintain a lifestyle dominated by hunting, with some farming. This involved more-or-less extensive changes to the landscape.

America before the White man came wasn't pristine or natural. It was bountiful.

[sandspar]

Seems unnecessary to jump on the guy for his word choice. It's easy to do and it makes you look good when you can give a little speech correcting him. But I don't think it really helps anybody. It seems more like a flex of your education and vocabulary than anything else.

[JohnMakin]

> Referring to land the natives had inhabited for something like 15,000 years as "pristine" and "natural" is somewhat erasing their accomplishments, no?

Erm, no? Seems kind of racist to say otherwise? The plains indians entire culture revolved around preserving and respecting nature. And I'm pretty sure it's only theorized that the paleo-indians wiped out the mammoths, and I'm not sure how that's the problem of the white man or even the native americans of the mid 19th century.

Extending your argument to its logical absurdity, no environment can be considered "pristine" unless it's the literal primordial sludge the first life emerged from. Very odd nitpickery.

[bequanna]

This simply isn’t true. The Native Americans’ sense of conservation and “living in perfect harmony” is some romantic fantasy.

There are many records of large pre-Columbian settlements exhausting resources (like game and trees) and abandoning entire areas.

There is nothing racist about it. They were humans. They consumed resources and grew their population as aggressively as their technology permitted.

[Teever]

Seems like you're describing a dynamic equilibrium which is a hell of a lot better than any than that has come after them.

[vundercind]

They’d heavily managed the land, especially through intentional burning, for a very long time. That would have shaped entire ecosystems.

[icee]

This comment makes me feel like I'm on reddit. In a bad way.