[halflings]

> The world is teetering on the edge of world war

The world probably has never been as peaceful as in the last 50 years or so.

Same goes for access to drinkable water, food, decent shelter, gender equality, freedoms, technology, etc.

But I suppose your comment is a good illustration of the problem at hands (that so many people deeply believe that things are fucked)

[lukan]

"The world probably has never been as peaceful as in the last 50 years or so."

So all the defense ministers in europe for example, who urge us to get ready for real war, are paranoid then?

25 years ago it was mostly peaceful, with a steady downward trend since then. And many people, including government officials, see now a war between china and US as inevitable. That is different from my youth, which was mainly optimistic, with the big players negotiating and demilitarizing.

[newzisforsukas]

> So all the defense ministers in europe for example, who urge us to get ready for real war

That is about deterrence, no?

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/have-peace-europe-must-...

[lukan]

I hope so. I don't want the EU to be the next wannabe empire.

[robertlagrant]

> So all the defense ministers in europe for example, who urge us to get ready for real war, are paranoid then?

It would be good to see the evidence for a war from the last two years would a) cause suicide and b) do it instantly.

[lukan]

The war started in 2001 with the war on terror. And in Ukraine the war started 2014. And then there was Corona. And climate change. Etc. etc.

[naravara]

In the past people who were mostly disinterested in politics and news simply didn’t watch/read the news. Now the news finds them and they don’t have enough of an understanding of civics, economics, and history or the emotional coping mechanisms to know what to do with it.

It’s not that they were fully ignorant of the news in the past, but people used to get most of their “takes” and opinions from like, a weekly editorial column or Sunday paper or something that would sort of bubble up through various cultural filtering mechanisms. By the time it got to your typical 17 year old it has already gone through a “processing mechanism” where it’s been analyzed, contextualized, better understood. They’re not getting the messy information in raw form.

Now they get the raw information as it happens, and often bubbling up from agenda driven activists instead of disinterested analysts. Consequently, everything has a heavy emotional charge and is specifically geared to short circuit the rational mechanisms for understanding things and hit you in the lizard brain. The lizard brain is good for quick thinking and rapid reactions, but it’s not very good at emotional regulation, priority setting, or any of the other stuff that’s conducive to mental health.

[newzisforsukas]

> The lizard brain

https://cos.northeastern.edu/news/its-time-to-correct-neuros...

[RiverCrochet]

> The world probably has never been as peaceful as in the last 50 years or so.

True, but we are not talking about the last 50 years, we are talking about the future, for example, the next 5 years. People don't commit suicide if they think their future will be OK.

> Same goes for access to drinkable water, food, decent shelter, gender equality, freedoms, technology, etc.

- Item 2 and 3 ignore recent rises in food prices and housing prices.

- For the U.S., item 4 and 5 have been reduced in many places by various recent laws and judicial decisions (unless you are super rich), and this will probably continue for the near future.

- The last item - 6 - technology. I think for a non-tech-person standpoint, it really appears like technology primarily has ...

A) ... stagnated. Phones--the tech most people use daily--haven't done anything new and exciting for some time. The Internet hasn't given the non-tech public-at-large the next big thing after social media, either.

B) ... primarily become interested in putting monthy fees, ads and tracking on everything one does, and

C) ... a mission replace most jobs with A.I.

[a2800276]

That may be correct -- depending on the degree to which you agree with Pinker's (I assume) interpretation of statistics. But it probably does not reflect the reality of the people contemplating or committing suicide. They may also not care if things are _objectively_ better when things subjectively suck for them.

But, very few people people commit suicide purely in response to their despair concerning the state of the world. There are almost always deeper mental health issues involved. And as strange as it sounds, suicide goes in and out of fashion as well. In general, it's very difficult to drill down on causality of suicide rates.

[thuuuomas]

It seems like you’re vaguely alluding to global averages when most commenters are lamenting the state of their own countries, communities, daily lives - a categorical error. Scale & locality can’t be hand-waved away.

[JansjoFromIkea]

"the world" probably doesn't mean that much to a 25-30 year old American's personal morale; I don't see why it should

Like, I'm sure someone in Flint a few years ago wouldn't begrudge more people having access to drinkable water but they're obviously going to be massively unhappy about having to consider the possibility of no longer having access to it themselves.

[a2800276]

Ironically, suicide rates are typically fairly low among people dealing with actual existential problems. Depression is not very prevalent until all basic needs are taken care of.

[hindsightbias]

Imagine how all the millions of warfighters over the last few decades in the middle east feel about this hysteria. And pretty much the best 98% of Americans could do was a flag sticker and a yawn.

But their phone says this is different, so they believe it. Mission Accomplished.

[CooCooCaCha]

Water with micro plastics and availability under threat due to climate change. Some places are already feeling it.

Food that’s hyperpalatable, full of sugar, and devoid of nutrition. Case-in-point, the obesity crisis.

Sure technology is great but the internet has fucked our brains. The tech industry repeatedly creates hype bubbles like crypto to make a buck. And don’t even get me started about AI.

Gender equality is far from resolved for both men and women. Women still have to deal with harassment and men are now expected to fulfill contradictory roles of being both a progressive feminist and a traditional masculine man.

Sure things are great when you oversimplify and ignore the bad parts.

[analognoise]

The world is only “peaceful” if you don’t consider this rise in suicide as hybrid warfare against the working class.

50k deaths put this at roughly a Vietnam war every year.

[jodrellblank]

About as many people as die in road traffic incidents every year in the USA, basically completely preventable, and nobody (media, congress, president, policial candidates) are kicking up a fuss about that. 47k estimated in 2020: https://www.statista.com/statistics/192575/road-traffic-fata...

[hanszarkov]

>The world probably has never been as peaceful as in the last 50 years or so.

Peaceful? As in Russia, Ukraine, Israel, Gaza, Iran? Brazil is at great risk also.

I don't think so.

[newzisforsukas]

Probably referring to the Global Peace Index?

https://www.visionofhumanity.org/maps/#/

[credit_guy]

> The world probably has never been as peaceful as in the last 50 years or so.

You are probably living in a different world than the rest of us.

[tossandthrow]

can you elaborate? I am under the same belief as the parent commenter.

though, the fact that there are no real issues could indeed be an issue.

[credit_guy]

The parent is intentionally conflating the last 2 years with the prior 5 decades. Right now there is a war going on, of a magnitude not seen since WW1 and WW2.

[BirAdam]

Yeah, things are better than ever in most metrics, but this is also the issue with metrics. Those same metrics do not cover two current wars that involve nuclear powers and the risk of these two wars becoming global conflicts. Those metrics do not cover increasing atomization of human societies and the impact of increased atomization on the human social animal. Those metrics do not cover human exposure to sunlight, clean air, clean water, and other health factors. Likewise, humans have a tendency to focus on risks and negatives rather than celebrating wins as a product of evolutionary pressure.

[CooCooCaCha]

Yes, the person you’re replying to reminds me of those guys on Twitter who selectively quote stats to try and prove that people are doomers and things are actually good.

There are so many things that statistics don’t cover it’s unreal.

One thing that especially comes to mind is that many of the illusions of society have been shattered by the younger generations. Things like believing you should be loyal to your employer because they’ll return the favor.

[ThrowawayR2]

> "Things like believing you should be loyal to your employer because they’ll return the favor."

Nobody's believed that since, I'd say, the 1970s-1980s. Even Japan, famous for its culture of lifetime employment, phased that out in the 1990s. It's ridiculous to suggest that that's a new phenomenon.

[CooCooCaCha]

Quiet quitting is a relatively new phenomenon. You’re statement only makes sense if you oversimplify

[ThrowawayR2]

Surely you jest. Coasting and resting-and-vesting have been around longer than most of the people reading this site have been alive. That some influencers and hack journalists rebranded it to quiet quitting and marketed it as the trendy thing to do does not remotely make it a new phenomenon.

[CooCooCaCha]

No i don’t jest. Coasting and rest-and-vest have a completely different vibe than quiet quitting. The former is more like “fuck it”, whereas the latter is more like “fuck you”.

[zvmaz]

> The world probably has never been as peaceful as in the last 50 years or so.

Speculation, but I strongly suspect that only a blind Pinker follower would so confidently say that.

Do you happen to live on earth, Professor. Pangloss's disciple[1]?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candide

[quickslowdown]

Burying your head in the sand is definitely more comfortable, as is repeating stats. But if you live in the same reality as everyone else and are paying any attention whatsoever, seems hard to believe that you wouldn't take notice of the Russian war in Ukraine, Israel's attack on Gaza, tensions heating up between Israel & its neighbors, Switzerland holding a vote on whether or not to remain a neutral company in the event of a war, Russia & China constantly attacking countries' computer & physical infrastructure, etc.

[jodrellblank]

Being able to point to a war isn't evidence that the world is less peaceful now than before. The claim wasn't "war is no more".

> "Russia & China constantly attacking countries' computer & physical infrastructure, etc."

Is this in any way comparable to physical warfare?

[lamontcg]

> The world probably has never been as peaceful as in the last 50 years or so.

Meanwhile Putin is itching for a rationalization to drop a nuke in Ukraine.

[readyman]

Your platitudes do nothing to make up for the fact that wealth inequality is worse than it has ever been many times over. The cruel and unusual experience of such exploitation and social contortions faced by those at the bottom will always undermine your pathetic attempts to legitimate such ignorance.

[Ferret7446]

The quality of life of the poorest members of society is also much higher than it has ever been, indeed, much higher than historical kings and lords.

Unfortunately, people do tend to be happier if they're miserable among other miserable people, than if they were living comfortably among people with cooler things than them.

[readyman]

Your first point conflicts with your second. Maybe work on that.

It is very well understood across all relevant metrics that younger people are less economically secure than their parents. Coupled with extreme and growing wealth inequality, this is bound to be a political problem whether you like it or not. And, these suicide numbers suggest it may be a serious psychological problem as well. Your platitudes don't change that.

[tossandthrow]

can you elaborate? the current wealth inequality seems quite a bit better than a feudal society.

[readyman]

Feudalist societies were not organized by wealth but rather by roles that people were essentially born into. These roles were not achieved but rather understood as basically granted by god. Just as kings had divine rights, people had god-given qualities and understood themselves as having inherent and inherited positions in society, which effectively eliminated all of the social pressure and unusual contortions experienced by subjects under capitalism, even at the level of peasants. So-called fairness as we understand it today was not even a coherent concept at the societal level. Peasants owned nothing but also had far more freedoms and access to resources, which were eventually deemed property as humans entered into capitalism, which forced peasants into capitalist production as workers.

To understand the differences between feudalism and capitalism, you must also understand the conflict between the feudalist aristocracy (god-given) and the capitalist bourgeoise (industrious accumulators of capital). This conict was really the source of the shift to capitalism. The aristocracy could not compete with the capitalists as the capitalists promoted a story of mobility by accumulating capital. Of course, however, only a few can achieve that, and they basically still argue that their abilities are god-given. But the claim about abilities and hard work paying off vs. simple i herited permanent roles results in a much more damaging psychology.

[hiddencost]

I think that there's some consistent effort in right wing news sources to paint young/ liberal people as inappropriately worried.

It's nonsense.

There's been a land war in Europe for the first time since WW2 going on, if you hadn't noticed. About a half million casualties.

We solved the ozone layer. The right just refuses to engage with climate change as we rush past the worst case projections.

Wealth inequality is at historic extremes.

Pretty much any honest review is going to be profoundly demoralizing.

[silverquiet]

And telling young people that they're crazy for noticing these things isn't going to help either. I'm not old, but I can't call myself young anymore, and I understand now that if I live to a reasonable life expectancy, I'm probably going to see some shit. I can't imagine tacking on a decade or three to that; I used to envy children born after me for the advances they'd live to see, but now I feel nothing but sorrow for them, and I'm so relieved that I never had any.

[swatcoder]

Never mind those looming clouds or that biting breeze that just picked up, it's been sunny for a whole week -- it's sure to last forever this time! /s

Those last 50 years were a side effect from one of two global powers catastrophically collapsing. The tensions that drive modern history didn't dissolve when that happened, they were just tabled as numerous contending powers with their own visions of the world reorganized and regrouped. Maybe we can all diplomatically navigate our way past the worst outcomes along the way, but the next 50 years simply aren't going to look like the last 50.

[rambojohnson]

> The world probably has never been as peaceful as in the last 50 years or so.

oh jeez, say that to the people of Palestine or the Congo. people who make these blanket generalizations are either tone deaf or come from a place of privilege.

[jodrellblank]

Anyone who says that isn't aware of how many wars there used to be. See[1] and look at the countries and regions involved, and how in this century it's down to a very very few regions. Since WWII, Europe has been incredibly peaceful after centuries of invasions, border conflicts, revolutions, empires rising and falling.

Pointing to one thing going wrong so you can call people 'privileged' doesn't change it. Nuclear Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD), NATO, the EU, the USA, the generally calm dissolution of the British/French/Spanish empires, the end of new lands to find, has stabilised a lot.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe

[ThrowawayR2]

The Middle East has been a festering conflict zone since before even most boomers were born.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_modern_conflicts_in_th...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Arab%E2%80%93Is...