[adamc]

I have a hypothesis about that, based on prior battles with depression. A characteristic of many people who struggle with depression is revisiting things over and over in your mind, looking for what is often a non-existent solution. This is a very, very useful trait in a software engineer. It helps us think of solutions to hard problems, to see options that are not initially obvious.

But it also enables mental illness when you encounter problems that cannot be solved that way -- for me, it was divorce. But life is full of intractable problems.

[anal_reactor]

I was born in a tiny village in a poor country where local politicians literally banned wifi in schools because apparently "radiowaves cause autism and homosexuality". I'm not joking. This was the official governmental position. In 2017. You can imagine technical literacy of anyone I had contact with as a child, years before that.

Today I work as an engineer at a known American corporation, slowly but surely moving up the ladder. Not everything goes smoothly, but I earn more than the rest of my elementary school peers combined and my prospects are bright.

I do not wish upon anyone the amount I work I had to put into achieving this position. Looking back, I'm in awe how this was possible. I basically dedicated 100% of my life to one goal. It's not just about studying all day all night. It's about tuning your core emotional responses to motivate you to keep reaching higher and higher at all costs. I can confidently say that I was right on the edge of going insane, and the entire experience caused irreparable damage to my mental health. It's only now that I'm learning to slow down.

It's strange. On one hand I don't think I'd change anything. I'm proud of the path I took. On the other hand, if I had a child, I just couldn't send it the same route, knowing how much it hurts.

[kelsey98765431]

War, war never changes. Once you think about what we do as a form of combat, be it sparring in a classroom setting with kid gloves on or an all out bare knuckle street brawl, what we do is a form of grappling combat. You are right about dedicating 100% of your life to be where you are. In my experience in the industry there are two types of developers, those who do it as a job and those who live it as a life. No disrespect to those who are just there to take care of their family, but they are of a different breed. Programming is in a weird place where it's literally brand new in terms of the scale of human history and yet already "established" as an industry. Most of the engineers that I look up to and respect are the ones that will be coding from a wet cardboard box should it come to that, but darn it the code will be pushed to main no matter what.

That's not a healthy work life balance, that's not even a lifestyle, it's a deep core aspect of these people. The most effective engineers i know come from a military background, and not because the military somehow makes you a better coder, but because it can give you the attitude to persevere adapt and overcome intense mental and emotional challenges. Building products is great, I have nothing but love for those who sign off at 5pm - But every day including weekends the small group of so called "10x"ers are staying in touch long after the day is done and already done with the first round of work before the 8am standup.

It's not fair to ask those who just want to take care of their children to rise to meet this level of commitment, and the engineers doing this usually are working hard to establish their own products and startups but the true ultimate goal of that is to be paid to write whatever we want, and the money is the means to the end of writing more code.

Rest in peace to those who have not made it to their goals and no longer have the chance to try. Best wishes to those who want to have a home or family life yet compare themselves to those who have sacrificed everything for this life.

Why do they do it? Most often a deep sense of duty, or some deep sense of unease that the soft glow of the terminal evokes. Perhaps both.

All this to say that your pain and suffering is real and the true payout is just more pain and suffering. To those thinking about this life I recommend Musashi's Five Rings and to honor the Bushido.

[anal_reactor]

> All this to say that your pain and suffering is real and the true payout is just more pain and suffering.

This is what I hate about modern workplace. The society clearly needs people who migrate databases at 3AM, but it never rewards them, instead just squeezes as much juice as possible before moving onto the next young motivated freshman. I'm not talking about financial reward, I'm talking about creating a work environment where migrating the fucking database FEELS rewarding. I truly miss the rush I had at the university when turning in a difficult project I had spent nights on. Instead I get to stare at a poster "remember that HR is there to protect the company from you, we pay you to shut up".

Nowadays I try giving as few fucks as possible, and I'm looking for happiness in other areas of my life, which isn't easy. I'd rather see my passion die than witness it being exploited by the very same people who make me feel misunderstood.

I am very much butthurt about how the society functions but I also realize I cannot do anything about it, so my next goal is to learn how to just relax, do nothing, and be happy about it.

[shrimp_emoji]

Pfsh. I sign off at 1700 and then code on my own stuff. |]

[sh_hike]

+1 I spent most of my childhood and teenage years feeling depressed due to traumatic experiences. I failed at mostly everything until I started programming. I took some mushrooms last year that helped me stop this constant cycle of repeating thoughts.

[chrisweekly]

It seems like there's an increasing degree of awareness (in some parts of the US) that psilocybin mushrooms can be transformative for treating PTSD and/or depression. I'm curious if you live in a US state, and what your experience was like....

[financltravsty]

Psychedelics force you to break out of mental loops, and give you a new way to look at things (one that is already possible and intrinsic to you, but locked away by bad experiences) -- meaning a new, better way to live and experience life is possible.

As someone who has used a lot of psychedelics, it is transformative, once you realize everything is literally all in your head. That no matter the pain and suffering you're going through, life can be beautiful, and lovely, and enjoyable. Psychedelics can even show you the things, issues, and parts of you that you've been running away from.

But then the onus is on you. You have three options: go back to your normal life, and continue going through the same cycle of suffering (uncommon); continue (ab)using psychedelics to reach the same state (common); or take what you've learned and start making changes to yourself and your life, so you don't have to use them again (rare).

[norir]

Yes and to add to this, I think also the longer you stay in the industry, the more you realize that the industry itself has intractable problems (at least on the scale at which you can effect change). The tension is whether or not to accept those problems or leave the industry.

Unfortunately, I also think that many of the problems are both simultaneously solvable and intractable at the same time, which is particularly crazy making if one is so inclined.

[sandspar]

Where else is that mental revisiting useful? I'm very much in love with someone who has that trait and is a successful software developer. They say they want to get out of the industry in a few years. I want to know other places they can work.