[bl4ckm0r3]

OOP is easy to understand and explain and it makes sense initially, plus a lot of people specialize in languages/frameworks that enforce it, so it becomes easy to get trapped in the OOP world. It also usually comes with DDD (which is a solution to a problem you shouldn't have had in the first place) which is a way to limit the damages of OOP into contextual areas. I also think the blanket statement (OOP is bad) does not apply necessarily everywhere. A good mix of composability and a bit of inheritance where it makes sense is the best way imo.

[cess11]

I disagree. Starting with separating class and object have never been helpful when I've tried to teach computer programming, while functions seems to have been more intuitive to those people.

After a while you get to closures, which are pretty much objects without classes, and then factory functions that produce closures and there you have something like a class as well. If I were to design a course I'd probably follow this flow to get to 'OOP' in that sense.

[xwolfi]

But you go from the bottom up here, I don't like to describe it that way.

I prefer to say that we naturally classify objects around us using fuzzy boundaries like "a house", "a cat", which don't exactly mean anything: they are templates we use later to actually generate an actual house, or an actual cat (on a piece of paper as a drawing for instance).

The world being separated between our internal classes and the interactive instances of them, we can code that way too: we look for what we actually need in a concept, name it and define only what we need, then instantiate several concrete actors interacting together. Each actor is complete, well defined, with contracts for interactions.

You can then start building on top of this more complex systems, talking in English and defining rationally the world of your little model.

If you start talking about functions, you're basically aliasing a memory address for a bunch of code: you'll goto that function address, with some parameters at some other address, do a bunch of things and put the result in another address for the next function to process. You're building at best a suite of pipelines, which ends up being a little bit too technical and static for my taste.

Another way to defend modelling a software with classes and object, in my view, without trying to talk about functions, is the blank page effect: imagine arriving at random at some assignment. You understand vaguely the business problem, now you need to code a solution. You have 6 months, will generate a few millions a year and will require a team of 10 people eventually to test, maintain, operate and debug: you start with defining functions generating functions with callback parameters in Python, or you launch IntelliJ and you do a Java class model ? I'd be terrified modelling complex problems with just functional pipelines, I think it's just way more obvious to talk about objects at all time if you're gonna do something that is not just processing inputs into well defined outputs.

[cess11]

I prefer to start with an interactive programming environment, like a REPL, to keep the feedback loop tight and code short. If I needed to talk for ten minutes about templates and instances and how you need to have a little meeting with yourself and do modeling I'd have lost their interest right away. These words mean nothing to a newbie, unless they're some kind of philosophy nerd so I can hook into ancient greek ideas about Forms or something.

'Here is a way to do simple math, here is a way to glue text to text, now that has grown a bit, you can shorten it for repetitions by giving it a name like this', and so on.

And to me, starting out functionally is easy. Data is pretty much always a given, it's very rare in practice that I first need to model speculatively and then generate data ex nihilo unless I'm creating mocks. Usually there is a data source, a file, a network API, whatever, and then I start building against that. Small, simple things at first, like mapping all the input to an output interface, then add transformations and output for these, and so on.

In general I spend more time thinking about the shape of data I already have than architecting code or inventing models.

[bl4ckm0r3]

I think you identified the selling point of OOP, it's easy to reason about it and logically it makes sense to human because we do think in terms of objects (the user, the order, the item etcetc) and responsibility segregation (User->login(), Order->fulfil(), etc). To your example of just launching intellij and using java (or ruby or whatever) to build something, yeah it works and it works fast and it's easy to add new features, and it's also easy to end up with a >3k loc User class in python that no one can touch (true story).