[int_19h]

Your response reminds me of back when Noam Chomsky was going around saying that Khmer Rouge cannot possibly as bad as Americans say they are, and most of it is probably a CIA psyop anyway.

(The fact that he was wrong was not, of course, a valid justification for what US did in Cambodia back then.)

[defrost]

Relevant here is the probable alternative reality that the Khmer Rouge very likely would not have taken control and become "as bad as Americans say" were it not for the United States-backed military dictatorship of Marshal Lon Nol that they fought against and the horrific tonnage of American bombing directed at them in support of that US dictatorship (that exceeded WWII bombing tonnages in Europe).

I'm not making a strong anti US statement here, more an observation about the behaviour of the post WWII US and former colonial powers in SE Asia and elsewhere and the lengths they went to retain control of former colonies rather than foster democracy and self determination.

A lot of bad policy was undertaken which seemed to all result in far worse outcomes from the pushback.

Which may remind some of the Levant.

[int_19h]

Chomsky was publishing on this after the "evacuation" of Phnom Penh, though - and claimed that it wasn't a mass murder. Which is why it reminds me of Hamas apologetics after 10/7 that claim that nothing particularly horrible happened on this day (in fact, in some far left circles that I hang out, people even seriously say things like "they were all colonizers and therefore combatants", "there were no civilians killed, it was all legitimate targets in a war of national liberation" etc).

As far as Israel in general and US foreign policy specifically with respect to it, I'm pro-BDS, now more strongly than ever. I just don't see why that should somehow translate to viewing Hamas as anything other than the murderous thugs that they are. It's not an either-or.

[defrost]

The people that executed the October attacks on civilians committed murder, just as any forces that kill children are also murderers.

The people that executed those October attacks swore fealty to the Hamas of 2023 and represent the Hamas of 2023.

That Hamas is very different to the barely elected Hamas of 2006 who were then the lesser of other evils and swore blind to the people that they sought peace with Israel.

The bulk of the people in Gaza did not elect the Hamas of 2006, nor support the Hamas of 2023, nor deserve to be starved and murdered.

Somewhere in both stories lie similar questions; what actions transformed the Khmer Rouge that opposed Norodom Sihanouk in 1970 into the Khmer Rouge of 1975 more aligned with Sihanouk and prepared to murder those that ousted Sihanouk, what actions transformed the Hamas of 2006 into that of 2023. Both stories prompt asking what justifies, if anything, the slaughter of tens of thousands.

[int_19h]

I don't dispute that Israel has been doing the kind of stuff that has produced the likes of Hamas for a very long time now. Nor that what Israel is doing right now is well into war crimes & genocide territory, and should be treated as such- i.e. no military aid whatsoever, severe international sanctions, its leadership subject to arrest and trial if it sets foot into any civilized country, and ideally a UN-sanctioned military intervention in Gaza to stop the bombings, by shooting down Israeli planes if necessary.

That said, by 2006, Hamas already had a fairly long track record of killing "collaborators" and "deviants", as well as several clear-cut terrorist acts against civilians (e.g. blowing up bus stops). The radicalization happened a decade earlier.