[piva00]

It's also very visible in central Lisbon, even in a short period of time from the first time I visited friends there (around 2010) to now the whole centre has been hollowed out and mainly inhabited by tourists, or digital nomads/rich foreigners. You can see a clear divide where the AirBnBs end and the real city begins between the neighbourhoods of Alfama (touristic) - Penha França, when you look at buildings and notice new sets of double glazed windows all around you know those are STRs, then walk a few more blocks into Penha França's area and there are almost no new windows on buildings.

It's actually sad to see it transformed, I'm not against tourism at all because of course I'm a tourist as well but this kind of tourism just seems to hollow out entire neighbourhoods and instead of a lively and vibrant city life you just see tons of tourists looking at their maps at every corner, rolling luggage up and down onto these apartments.

[somewhereoutth]

The good news is that when we throw the tourists out, we get to keep the double glazing!

Unfortunately STRs have put lots of money into the pockets of the otherwise not very cash rich middle classes in Portugal, so it is hard to get them to vote to turn the money taps off, even if it means their children can no longer get rooms above their favorite downtown coffee shop while studying. Much easier to blame digital nomads / rich foreigners / poor immigrants, and vote for Chega.

[simonbarker87]

At the risk of sounding insensitive, I know Lisbon is going through a big change at the moment, but this isn’t a short term rental problem. This is a big city developing to the next stage problem and this is Lisbon’s version of it.

London, New York, Paris, Madrid, LA, etc all became too expensive for locals at some point in their history. Lisbon is next up and in a few years there will be other cities this happens to.

I’m not saying it’s right but it seems, inevitable?

[kranke155]

Its not inevitable. In Lisbon's case, could have been preventing with legislation controlling airbnb saturation. Which is now in place, and will likely save Porto from the same dystopia.

[simonbarker87]

Sure, this version of the problem could have been avoided with legislation but something else would cause it. Let’s take Porto as the example, automotive industry in the region grows suddenly, people move to the area, buy and rent property in Porto which drives up prices and drives out locals.

Which is basically what happened in all those other cities I listed and whatever the requisite industry is.

[kranke155]

Theres a quantum leap difference between growing industries and tourism. Tourism is an inequality industry, where the owners of the hotels/homes for rent make everything, and the staff makes very little to nothing. It is almost the worst industry you can have in a developing country.

[simonbarker87]

That’s a fair point.

Perhaps Lisbon (and PT in general) should focus its efforts on levelling up its economic activity in to higher value areas. The time I’ve spent in PT all people talk about is the negative impacts of tourism and not improving the wider economy. There seems to be a very conservative mindset.

But that’s probably from a thin slice of exposure.

[kranke155]

No I would say thats largely correct.

The country de industrialised way too early (I would argue no country should ever de industrialise to begin with, but that's another cup of tea entirely) And now has created lots of low quality jobs in the tourism sector through mass tourism and benevolent expat laws to people from richer countries.

The whole thing is a tragedy, but it helps those with capital already (homeowners in central Porto and Lisbon have likely seen their capital 3x to 10x) so the government let it happen.

The whole 2nd tier of the eurozone is completely in tatters anyway. Spain, Portugal, Italy and Greece. The eurozone doesn't work when there are two tiers of countries in it. Joseph Stiglitz had a great book about it.

[jimbokun]

Sounds like a “nobody goes there any more, it’s too crowded” kind of problem.

[jimbokun]

In other words, you just don’t want to see all the other asshole tourists like you when you go on vacation.

[piva00]

Nah, I don't behave like the other asshole tourists, I don't use AirBnB, usually go to cities and towns where I know people so I can stay with a local and enjoy the underground, get lost in the cities without checking maps in the middle of where people pass by going to work.

You don't know me, don't assume, you're just being an asshole.