[JumpCrisscross]

> biggest example being Tesla full self driving that has been promised for years and never materialised

On a philosophical level, I agree with you. As a practical matter, did anyone who actually purchased FSD feel duped? If they did, were they denied a refund?

[Mawr]

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38146676

"I bought a Model 3, taking delivery in July 2019 and paying £5800 for the FSD extra. My view was that Tesla had failed to deliver on the contract with how they described FSD at the time, and so I ended up taking them to court for £5800 plus interest and costs. Just before the court hearing was about to take place, Tesla settled with me, the core of the settlement being:

- FSD removed from my car, e.g. just standard Autopilot

- Tesla paying me a little over £8000"

[sandofsky]

There was a class action lawsuit about it. Sadly, they seem to have put arbitration agreements in their FSD EULA.

https://electrek.co/2023/10/02/tesla-weasel-way-out-full-sel...

[atonse]

Yeah I don't remember ever seeing them saying it was ready. When I bought the 3, they basically said it was a few years away and you can pre-pay now to help fund the building of FSD.

[FireBeyond]

Even there, there's a lot of weasel word statements and even language on the order page that doesn't say, but heavily implies that the only hurdle is "regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions".

[teachrdan]

> I don't remember ever seeing them saying it was ready

If you read down a bit in TFA, you'd see Elon addressing this exact issue:

"1,115 days since Elon Musk announced the FSD button and v9 of FSD would be 'uploaded' soon. (3/20/2021)"

"Given significant architectural changes, including fundamental improvements to pure vision, there is limited value to testing 8.x. Hoping to upload V9.0 & button next month." Elon Musk in a Tweet

So a year into Covid he was claiming they were a month away from FSD.

[chipdart]

> On a philosophical level, I agree with you. As a practical matter, did anyone who actually purchased FSD feel duped?

You're confusing two entirely independent positions.

Customers buy what's on the market today. They buy the features available today, and Tesla is bounded to meet the expectations of the claims it makes regarding their current product line. As Tesla did not made any claim that their current product line ships with full self driving, and as customers made their decision based on how these products are advertised, FSD is not a factor.

Investors however are promised something entirely different. Elon Musk has been making wild claims about what products and features are just around the corner, and how fantastic they are and how they will be selling like hotcakes. Be it FSD, be it an affordable electric car, be it robocars, etc etc. Investors want returns on their investment, and they hear these outlandish promises of fantastic returns arriving just around the corner and therefore act upon these promises. But these promises end up being vaporware.