[keiferski]

I didn’t claim to be have more ethical understanding than he did, but frankly, if his reported positions on nuclear strikes were actually what he thought, then yes, I think I do.

You may think ethics is muddy and nonsensical, but guess what? So is reality. That’s the point. Reality is nuanced and more complex than a single human mind can comprehend. Extremely intelligent people (particularly at math and other abstract fields) often seem to not understand this, preferring to believe that their variation of game theory is accurate.

All I can say is that I’m extremely glad that Von Neumann was in no position to launch weapons. Analysis has its limits.

[latency-guy2]

> I didn’t claim to be have more ethical understanding than he did

You just made the same value claim against his position, twice. Your claim that you made no claim is a lie.

> All I can say is that I’m extremely glad that Von Neumann was in no position to launch weapons. Analysis has its limits.

Neumann was a part of the same council that launched nuclear weapons, twice.

[keiferski]

No, I made the claim that Von Neumann lacked ethical wisdom, if his reported positions are accurate. I didn’t say I had more ethical understanding. One can point out the flaws in something without involving oneself. This is…not complicated?

This is exactly the sort of criticism that arises from hero worship. “Who are you to criticize the genius?”

And no, a council did not launch nuclear weapons. They advised the president, who made the final decision.

[latency-guy2]

> No, I made the claim that Von Neumann lacked ethical wisdom

Based on what, exactly. Your claim is not provided amongst proof, just your beliefs, which is you, not from a position of authority. Your words betray your position especially since you followed from:

> > > The man was intelligent, no doubt – but that doesn’t seem to have translated into any real world ethical understanding. A good example of why “meritocratic” systems based on raw intelligence probably don’t lead to wise outcomes.

> > I didn’t claim to be have more ethical understanding than he did, but frankly, if his reported positions on nuclear strikes were actually what he thought, then yes, I think I do.

> I didn’t say I had more ethical understanding.

Its a straight line, and you admit to it, certainly not a position you invented out of thin air upon observation of stories that you read today.

> One can point out the flaws in something without involving oneself. This is…not complicated?

Nice, enjoy your belittlement, hope it tastes sweet.

> This is exactly the sort of criticism that arises from hero worship. “Who are you to criticize the genius?”

As long as we're putting words in other peoples mouths, "I always make the right decisions" is not something you can really defend here.

> And no, a council did not launch nuclear weapons. They advised the president, who made the final decision.

So, what exactly was the council for then? Von Neumann is a pivotal part of all things nuclear at the time, do explain how he is NOT responsible for any deaths.