[ultimoo]

“Oh cool violin! Looks like it has a lot of history?”

“Nah it was actually made in 2022 and that’s a made up name on a fake label lol”

Sorry if I come across as ignorant but scratching something with pasta and using yellowed book pages to give it an artificially aged look is dishonest, especially for a $18k object made by a skilled artisan. I’m sure it looks and plays great in its mint form.

[metadat]

This part also rubbed me the wrong way. Synthetic aging techniques kill the appeal of the craft of creating a truly genuine, exquisite instrument.

It seems like what a cheap knock off manufacturer would do.. imagine if McLaren did this, what, just scuffing up the door handle with an old key. Outlandish and backwards, haha.

Or perhaps our repulsion reveals how unrefined and plebeish our opinions are on this topic, which is still kind of hilarious but also unfortunate, because it means a group of folks has effectively settled on preferring their McLaren with the intentional scratches.

[afc]

Not McLaren, but here's an example of a car manufacturer synthetically aging their new cars: https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a29838406/2021-ford-mu...

"Oops, the modern engines aren't as loud, let's use the speakers to fake it!" I think it's equivalent.

Funnily, I'm somehow more bothered by the violin pasta scratches than by the digitally generated engine/exhaust noise. I'm not sure why.

[julian_t]

Synthetic aging... there's quite a lot of this going on in the guitar world. On the purely cosmetic level, you can find a lot of 'relic' electric guitars, made to look like they've been on the road since the 60s. Some acoustic makers are experimenting with torrefaction and other techniques to age the top wood, and opinions are divided on whether this makes any difference.

But I'm just a pleb here... if an instrument feels good to play and sounds good, then that'll do!

[jdietrich]

Cosmetic ageing processes are broadly regarded as distasteful amongst collectors and connoisseurs, but there's clearly a market for it.

Torrefaction (or rather an optimised heat treatment process) can undoubtedly produce clear acoustic benefits. Suitable thermal treatment can significantly increase the stiffness and reduce the damping coefficient of wood, resulting in a more acoustically efficient material.

[guappa]

It makes a difference in price for sure :)

[cannam]

> imagine if McLaren did this

In some sense car manufacturers do do this - their designs are famous for being full of functionally empty retro cues that customers nonetheless go for.

[johnloeber]

I don't think there's anything wrong in making a traditional label that conforms to all other labels (i.e. looks aged).

That's a design choice, and design choices that appeal to tradition are everywhere, even in software.

[vintermann]

I know at least one good violin maker who agrees.

It's common to do various things to make instruments look older than they are, but it's controversial.

[grujicd]

This kind of artificial aging is an official thing in electric guitar market - typically called road worn. And it's done by Fender or Gibson, not just some obscure brands. There are also signature lines which are more ot less exact copies of guitars played by famuous musicians. For instance you can buy Malcolm Young Gretsch with empty pickup sockets, just like how Malcolm modified his own guitar. So some people love to have an instrument that looks like it's not new, even if it is.

[darkwater]

Well, brand new jeans trousers with holes have been a thing for years as well, now.

[thfuran]

As has pre-damaged furniture.

[nasmorn]

I have two cats that are expert at furniture damaging. Can rent them out for a couple of hundred a day

[cannam]

(Amateur cellist)

Instinctively I find this absurd too. I always thought it was funny that, at least at the level of student instruments, the more you spend, the more beaten-up your new instrument looks. Basic ones have an even spray varnish (which I generally quite like). My slightly better* Chinese factory instrument is antiqued to the extent of having a more worn-looking patch where the hand rests when playing in higher positions, as if to suggest decades of performance as a soloist. It's nonsense.

But plainly people do like this and makers do make it. See e.g. the instruments at https://www.myluthier.co/category/violins (I can't afford to shop there, I just picked it because they have pretty preview images) which stand as quite good evidence against any suggestion that "reputable luthiers would never". Yes at some point you just have to make a living, but there's enough skill put into it to suggest there might be something more artistically interesting going on as well. The results are certainly quite personal.

There are practical arguments for antiquing. It's kind of handy when you're playing in an ensemble: from a distance my cello looks basically the same as the others around me in the orchestra even though some of them are a century older and genuinely quite harshly used. And you never have the pain of getting the first obvious scratch or chip in a pristine instrument.

Curiously this doesn't seem to be a very new practice either - I think even 150 years ago, new instruments were being turned out designed to look like much older ones.

* Sounds and plays better, not just cost a bit more. I didn't choose it for the antiquing!

[wilsonnb3]

> scratching something with pasta and using yellowed book pages to give it an artificially aged look is dishonest

Unless she is telling people it is old when it is actually new, it isn't dishonest. Its not different than any other cosmetic choice.

My bass guitar isn't actually made out of red wood, it is just covered in red paint because I like the way red stuff looks.

[verisimi]

Yep, it's dishonest. But it looks good... It meets visual expectations... And I'm sure it helps the product off the shelf. Write ups in the NYT are quite useful too!

And I thought it was all about sound. She probably has a tiktok account too!

[wouldbecouldbe]

Yeah sounded weird to me as well, but I’m guessing in the violin market it’s the expected look and she will have a hard time selling to consumers if she doesn’t.

[anorphirith]

I came here to post the same, a self aware artisan wouldn't spend extra time making it look older than it is. that makes me question every other design choice as well, was it thought through at all or was it just simply repeating what was learned...

[anshorei]

What a violin is supposed to look like and how that affects price is interesting. As a violinist with a particular interest in old music I think it's sad how little diversity there is in violins. There's really only a couple of models that all luthiers build and those models all look similar to the untrained eye. In medieval, renaissance and baroque periods there was a lot more variability.

Aside from some experimental luthiers everyone builds the same style of violin because there's an assumption that if you're deviating from that form (e.g. cornerless violins such as the Chanot model, or baroque style piecrust violins) you must be sacrificing sound quality. And if you decorate your violin, it must be that it didn't sound good enough and you need to make it look good instead to sell it (strangely, as you mentioned, artificially making the violin look older is exempt... probably because it makes them fit in with the uniformity of classical violin)

The best sounding violins I've had were all a bit ... crooked. The simple reason is that being slightly asymmetric really hurts the value of a violin, even if the sound is fine. As a hobby musician I don't really care and am not ashamed of having a violin that looks a little "off" when close up. If you're not playing professionally this, or buying from upcoming luthiers who still have to make a name for themselves are good ways to find good-value buys.

[kjkjadksj]

Violin world must have never had a les paul or leo fender. Guitars would be the same way if it weren’t for these two.