[klabb3]

Question: didn’t DuPont and friends just launch “new products” with minor alterations to the chemical composition in order to clear the branding? I recall the newer substitutes were also “biopersistent” carbo-flourides or whatever they’re called.

[tmaly]

It is a cat and mouse game my chemist friend told me. There are thousands of compounds not in the public spot light. If one becomes bad like BPA, they just switch to some slightly different compound.

There are still health concerns with the different compounds, but not the FDA has to catch up and that takes years.

[bevekspldnw]

I’ve really starting paying attention recently to how many people in positions of power are willing to literally kill thousands of people to gain material wealth they have no practical use for.

Boeing being the poster child for this trend, but it’s truly systemic and I feel it’s just gotten worse.

Of course it’s nothing “new” per se, but that only makes me think there is a structural flaw in our species if we elevate these killers into power.

[YossarianFrPrez]

Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, sub- or semi-conscious rationalization is a powerful force.

[blackhaj7]

Agreed. It must be a weird feeling for it to be so crystal clear that your existence is a net negative to humanity

[toomuchtodo]

They don’t have the weird feeling because they don’t care. The serial killer doesn’t think they’re doing anything wrong, as a loose analogy.

[parineum]

Who says that's a net negative?

Boeing certainly provides a very substantial positive to humanity.

[blackhaj7]

I meant the PFAS people

[s0rce]

This seems to be what is happening, the lists of PFAS compounds being tested in targeted screening is becoming quite extensive.

[hammock]

If it's PFAS-free, then there is no fluoropolymer in it.

Shorter chain PFAS molecules, with shorter half-lives, have been and are still being explored as alternatives, for other use cases. This announcement applies only to the sale of food-contact paper and paperboard where PFAS was used fro grease-proofing.

The comments on this make me realize how far the information gap is that must be closed with the pubic. The media are not doing a great job

[monkburger]

Yes. Many compounds are not even listed because of IP/patents.

Just a reminder - Chemical Companies, legally, police themselves.

We have sooooo many PFOA's, like GenX, and some minor ones that are similar.

The original DuP documents from the 1950s said that /all/ PFOS/PFOAs should be burned.

[hn_acker]

Off-topic, but your comment reminded me of evergreening of medical drug patents [1] (example at [2]): when a pharmaceutical company's patent on a drug is close to expiring, the patent holder makes a minor change to the drug, patents the changed version, lets the patent on the unchanged version expire, and uses the new patent to sue anyone who makes or markets a generic version of the old drug. The patent on the changed version of the drug effectively covers the old version. The changed version of the drug is simultaneously different enough from the unchanged version that the pharmaceutical company can successfully apply for a new patent from the USPTO and similar enough that anyone who wants to make a biosimilar of the unchanged version can still be sued for patent infringement. The drug patent abusers eat their cakes and still have them.

The new patents shouldn't be granted in the first place, since one of the conditions of getting a patent on an invention is that the invention be novel over what has already been invented.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evergreening

[2] https://www.techdirt.com/2023/02/10/thanks-to-evergreening-a...

[klabb3]

> Off-topic, but your comment reminded me of evergreening of medical drug patents

Wow thanks for the rabbit hole. Clicked around and found “me-too drugs”[1]:

> a medication that is similar to a pre-existing drug, usually by making minor modifications to the prototype […] used to treat conditions for which drugs already exist

Yep. Same playbook for sure.

> The changed version of the drug is simultaneously different enough from the unchanged version that the pharmaceutical company can successfully apply for a new patent from the USPTO and similar enough that anyone who wants to make a biosimilar of the unchanged version can still be sued for patent infringement.

Beyond! This is like Soviet levels of kafkaesque rules. All in the free market country of USA.

[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me-too_drug

[smallmancontrov]

Yeah, this part feels more meaningful:

    FDA is working towards a validated analytical method
    that would allow us to monitor the market for these
    food contact substances in food packaging.

The best time to do this was 50 years ago, but the second best time is now.

[autoexec]

For the FDA "working towards" could take several years.

The FDA knew since at least 2019 that baby food sold in the US (Gerber, Beech-Nut, Parent’s Choice, Earth’s Best Organic, etc.) contains dangerous levels of heavy metals but they did nothing about it at all until they were shamed by media attention which triggered an investigation from the Subcommittee on Economic and Consumer Policy who then put out a couple of damning reports.

To this day Americans continue to spoon-feed poison into the mouths of their infant children, and the FDA has yet to even set action levels which would tell companies how much poison is too much. They keep pushing back their timeline and right now they think they might have just the first of several needed action levels finalized at the end of this year. (https://www.fda.gov/food/environmental-contaminants-food/clo...).

It's not like they only drag their feet when it comes to poisoned babies either, they also fail to act on reports of dangerous or unlawful clinical trial practices (https://www.science.org/content/article/fda-s-own-documents-...)

I don't know if it's regulatory capture, bribes, a lack of funding/support from government, or incompetence but we really need a strong FDA that actually does their job.

[theGnuMe]

The best strategy is to do what the EU does and ban them unless proven safe.

[b112]

Proven safe is wrought with specifics though.

Safe for mice? Because that's how a lot of testing is done.

Or like teflon which is perfectly safe until it reaches an easy-to-reach stovetop temp, and then it kills budgies in your home, and turns to poison in the pan?

Teflon passed, knowing it was deadly after being too hot, with the assumption that "people won't accidentally let a pan get too hot". Suuure, no one will get distracted by kids , the phone, someone at the door, etc. Suuure, no one will make a mistake in years of use!

Somewhat is "safe"?

I agree it would be a nice thing, but are we capable of that?

You and I, maybe. But our agencies? Dunno.

[waynesonfire]

what if medication was sold in this manner? Seems like we already have a platform and the burden should be on the industry.