[cess11]

No, they got the designation because they used suicide bombings in the nineties. But OK, so you'd call Israel a terrorist state then? And consider Israel the bigger problem due to the scale of their actions?

The Hamas charter is from 2017. Do you have any specific complaints about its contents?

[WJW]

> they got the designation because they used suicide bombings in the nineties

Did you completely miss their actions on October 7th? They didn't stop that kind of thing after the nineties.

[cess11]

Were suicide bombings used on October 7th?

Please answer my questions.

[boppo1]

They killed a whole bunch of civilians.

Not as many as Israel since though.

[cess11]

Seems likely they did, maybe other groups did too, and we'll probably never know to what extent the IDF were responsible.

The involved actor who could clear things up doesn't want to. If they don't want to, I take it that it wasn't very important to them.

[edanm]

You asked elsewhere to see footage, here's one site that has some of hte footage:

https://www.hamas-massacre.net/

There are dozens of sites collecting footage that Hamas itself put out during the attacks. There are hundreds of witness accounts. There are countless news articles from reputable news organizations corroborating all these accounts.

If you're honestly looking for the truth, it's not hard to realize what that it is.

[peddamat]

Thank you for posting this. Honestly, my social media bubble exposed me to exactly 0.5% of the videos on this site.

While I still think Israel is making the same mistake we did after 9/11, these videos help me feel a little of the vitriol fueling the IDF's actions.

[cess11]

OK, when I look under the "mass rape" tag there, it's just Amit Soussana, who says vague things like 'at one time a guard forced me to do a sexual thing'. The rest is people who probably suffered torture or could be just about anyone.

It also shows Hellfire-burnt bodies at Nova and seems to claim Hamas killed them.

Could you be more specific about what footage there is so important? I mean, there were obviously civilians who were killed by palestinians during that day, which isn't surprising or something I contest. But sites like that and the documentary I've seen, what they show isn't a lot, it's nothing like the torture and arbitrary detention and murder Israel has been engaged in for decades.

[mondojesus]

I gotta say it's been interesting finding online discourse that denies an atrocity that occurred only a few months ago. Never really paid attention when people talked about holocaust denial and denial of the Armenian genocide but now finding comments implying hamas did not torture, rape and murder their way across southern Israel when we have literal video footage of these savages enjoying their orgy of violence makes me understand those people a bit better.

[cess11]

The footage picked out for, I think, the #Nova documentary doesn't really corroborate that claim. In swedish it's called Massakern på musikfestivalen, I'm not sure which name it has internationally.

It shows some indiscriminate killing, for example throwing handgrenades into rocket shelters.

Soon after October 7th there was a lot of video material circulated, claimed to be from Israel but which was really cartel snuff and similar. If you have some material you are sure isn't in this category then I'd like to see it.

[WJW]

Don't be obtuse, there are many more forms of terrorism than suicide bombing. Israel should be more careful with the Palestinian population as a whole, but Hamas specifically have always been shitbags, are still shitbags and deserve every single shell coming their way.

[cess11]

Maybe there are, but the reason they got designated as a terrorist organisation by a rather small number of states were the suicide bombings in the nineties.

Sure, they might be shitbags, they're led by politicians after all. Have you considered sending the IDF a message and ask them to change their priorities and start aiming their shells mainly at al-Qassam brigade militants?

[YZF]

2016 was the last suicide bombing by Hamas. Keep in mind those didn't stop because Hamas changed. They stopped because Israel built walls around the West Bank and Gaza, many other security measures, and joint effort between the PA and Israel to stop these. While suicide bombing attacks were thwarted there have been many attacks against civilians through the years (something around 13 attacks in 2023 preceding Oct 7th) using assault rifles or vehicles e.g.