[ckolderup]

One of the things I think he's overlooking:

Frequently the reason that people don't go the extra mile of giving talks or otherwise sharing their thoughts and experiences is that they think that they're not good enough or worth less than other people. Sometimes this results in someone with a really great idea or a unique voice staying quiet.

In an industry dominated by men, women have been discouraged from participating or speaking up. It takes time and effort to reverse that damage. I'm glad that he took the time to invite women specifically, but I think his anger at the result is misplaced when it could be more effectively directed at a system that holds decades of inequality in place.

[roopeshv]

fuck. same can be said of geeks who don't speak up. there is no one advocating for them. if the stage is open, and you don't take the fucking chance to get in, don't complain.

[wpietri]

Two interesting aspects of your argument here. One, you've quietly dismissed any possible sexism. And two, after accurately pointing out a problem, your solution is basically, "well fuck them, then." Nice.

I've been involved in selecting conference speakers, and we went out of our way to find geeks who aren't used to speaking up. Quiet people often have the most interesting things to say.

[sp332]

Having "too few" women give talks isn't a problem. It's just a symptom of the fact that the community is unwelcoming toward women. That's what we're really trying to fix.

[factorial]

Why do you assume that the community is unwelcoming toward women? Isn't it just equally plausible that women just don't really want to be in technology-oriented fields? Maybe they just much rather prefer other areas. I know, the thought that men and women are actually different is deeply troubling to those who think that the only differentiator beween the sexes are a couple of sex organs.

[sp332]

I'm not just making assumptions. e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3731441 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3894404 and https://plus.google.com/106119964731604142156/posts/DkFAzuwm... and a lot of other stories.

I do believe that's the only difference, actually. Girls are not encouraged to enter tech nearly as often as boys are. Also they have fewer women as role models in tech. So it's not surprising that they don't enter the field as often.

[roopeshv]

having 10 anecdotes is not data. and opinion is not data. you do understand that much right. if i were to give you anecdotes, probably i can pull off a hundred of those right of the internet (probably there's a subreddit for that too), arguing the exact opposite.

of all the people saying how they are so pro-evidence are falling back to these one off anecdotes, just upsets me. no you didnot provide evidence, you showed a case.

if a gender has to be given a easier option to be included just because of their gender, what kind of stupid equality is that.

[sp332]

I don't think I said, or linked to anyone saying, that women should get an easier option than men. My links were intended to show the overall feeling that people in tech have, but if you want hard data, here you go: http://narrowthegapp.com/aat39.txt Here is a description of the environment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1965472 and a non-comprehensive list of infamous events http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_incidents . Obviously these incidents do not involve every member of the hacking community; the point is that they form a pattern of harassment that makes an atmosphere that is not welcoming toward women.

[factorial]

Hmm... Couldn't it just be that men are discouraged (!) from entering basically any field other than science/technology these days? Just have a look at the gender distribution in most majors. Why is nobody making a fuss about creating more "education opportunities" for men in medicine, journalism, communications, education, or just about college in general?

[sp332]

No. There is a shortage of software engineers right now. And geeks might be cooler than they used to be but that doesn't mean that everyone is a geek.

[factorial]

I'd say that the statistics speak for themselves. If you (sp332) say that women are discouraged from entering tech, it's just as valid to claim that men are discouraged from entering basically any other field. Besides, I get the uncanny impression that you have some political agenda, as evinced by your lack of facts and reasoning in your arguments, and substituting it by mere claims and rhetoric.

[wpietri]

Why would one assume that?

Aside from the millennia of oppression of women, you mean, keeping them out of every professional field? And aside from endemic gender stereotyping that pushes women strongly away from "hard" professions and toward "soft" ones? Oh, and aside from the dozens of conversations I've had with women in tech talking about how they've been mistreated?

Aside from all that, mainly because I'm really suspicious of unprovable arguments for a status quo that's very convenient for the speaker.

[gatlin]

This is so tired. Plenty of others responded with arguments and data and yet somehow I doubt you'll change your ignorant mind. Upset that I made an unfounded conjecture about you based on insufficient data? Exactly.