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by A_D_E_P_T
813 days ago
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> Everything the Israelis have ever been accused of doing, the Russians have done in Ukraine. This is demonstrably false in trivially obvious ways. How many Ukrainians have left the country? How many Gazans have been permitted to leave? And the question you keep muddying the waters around: What's the military to civilian casualty ratio? It's much worse in Gaza, no matter how you slice it. Even if we run your apples-to-apples comparison: 25k civilians dead in Gaza, "tens of thousands" (let's say 40k?) dead in Ukraine. (I am not sure how credible this is). The Ukrainians also claim that 180k Russian soldiers have died. Israel hasn't killed more than 12k Hamas members; Hamas claims 6k dead. In the one war, far more military than civilian casualties; in the other, the reverse. There's really no way to spin this. |
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https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/03/08/ukraine-russian-assault-...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/26/russia-accused...
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/03/ukraine-human...
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/08/1085097957/what-the-war-in-sy...
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-blames-russia-a...
https://press.un.org/en/2022/sc15023.doc.htm
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/09/russia-filtra...
https://www.hrw.org/report/2022/09/01/we-had-no-choice/filtr...
About military-to-civilian casualty ratio: again, compare like-for-like. Mariupol is the best analogue for Gaza, and Mariupol suffered tremendous civilian casualties despite not having all that many soldiers in the city. I would be shocked if the ratio was not comparable to Gaza if not worse. Had Kyiv been encircled it would have suffered the same fate or worse.
Even if you use the UN-confirmed deaths in Mariupol (around 2000), which we agree is an undercount, that's around 0.5%, compared to 1.2% in Gaza. On the other hand if it's 10,000, which still might be an undercount, that would be significantly more than Gaza.
But yes, Ukraine has "depth" and a larger population, so yes, lots of the fighting takes place away from cities. That doesn't, of course, prevent Russia from bombing and striking apartment buildings and kindergartens. Like this incident from a few days ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm6j9_XQNtY
Or this one, from yesterday
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-missile-damages...
But no, geographic reality shouldn't let Russia off the hook. If the conditions were right they'd treat every city like Mariupol, or Grozny.