[coldbrewed]

There's still a cap on growth. Apple is running into market saturation for phones and eventually will land in a situation where the only way it can sell more phones is by selling the same consumers newer/more expensive phones. To achieve this they either need to reduce quality so devices wear out or artificially prevent prolonged use; either scenario results increased production of e-waste.

Ecosystems have limits; you can't grow past the absolute maximums of supply and demand.

We only have so many minerals and so many humans which means that growth has hard caps. Even if we manage to colonize the solar system the same cap will still exist on humans and minerals. Eternal growth is demonstrably false and if we ignore these bounds then we encourage companies to grow through increased generation of negative externalities.

[jimbokun]

Then people will just stop buying iPhones, except for when their existing one breaks or wears out.

It's a problem the market is perfectly capable of sorting out, with some government intervention for cases like monopolistic practices.

[ch4s3]

> Ecosystems have limits; you can't grow past the absolute maximums of supply and demand.

This is a straw man. No one is suggesting that Apple should sell an iPhone to every person alive, and then a second for good measure.

You are essentially both holding up a straw man and arguing to absurdity.

My argument is that some growth is required and a precondition for existing in the future, not that infinite growth is required or possible.

[dreamworld]

I don't understand at all how some growth is a required precondition for continued existence. There is no rule saying that companies must grow or else they automatically vanish from existence.

[ch4s3]

I think it's pretty well explained above, costs grow, unexpected things can happen, things you use wear out, and the market you're in will change over time. If you don't grow at least a little inflation will drown you in rising costs. If you don't grow a little you'll be less resilient to costly shocks. If you don't grow and preferences change, you'll be stuck producing something no one wants anymore. Any of these things can kill a firm. Growth allows you to reinvest and adapt.