[klabb3]

Generally speaking this is the model I’ve always been wanted to build apps in. Event oriented, bidirectional realtime updates with server, ordered events, local and remote state...

I didn’t know about LiveView and never used erlang-family languages, but definitely they’re onto something. The traditional request-response model is many times causing a lot of subtle problems with consistency and staleness.

A wishful (probably also controversial) thought: if the last decade was about integrating FP concepts into mainstream languages, then I hope the next decade will be oriented around integrating stateful message-oriented (reactive?) programming into the mainstream full stack.

[floodfx]

There are LiveView backends written in Javascript (http://liveviewjs.com), Go (https://github.com/canopyclimate/golive), Java (https://github.com/floodfx/undead), and Python (https://github.com/ogrodnek/pyview).

Disclaimer: I wrote or helped write the first three.

[cess11]

You can use asdf to install erlang/BEAM/OTP and elixir, takes a few minutes if you have some previous experience with the tool.

Either way it'll probably take about two hours to have your first rudimentary Phoenix chat application loaded in a browser if you follow some guides and tinker around a bit.

[square_usual]

I would strongly recommend using mise instead of asdf. It's a drop in replacement that is just flat out better for most people.

[karmajunkie]

curious, what makes it better? asdf has always just worked for me, but this is the first time i’ve heard of mise, so i’m wondering what i’m potentially missing out on

[square_usual]

The mise docs have a great comparison page: https://mise.jdx.dev/dev-tools/comparison-to-asdf.html

In personal experience, all of these have held true. Mise is just easier to use than asdf and I don't have to `asdf -h` every time I have to use it. The performance is significantly better and I can use mise exec in shebangs without sacrificing too much startup time. And it's easier to install because it's a SLSE. I wouldn't say it's worth deliberately switching from asdf (though I would, because asdf's CLI is an endless annoyance to me), but if you're on a new machine I don't think there is a reason to use asdf over mise.

[jeremyjh]

Anyone who wants "nodejs latest:20" in their .tool-versions file is probably confused. The point of .tool-versions is to pin a particular version in your source control so you know your whole team is on the same version in that branch. Getting the latest revision whenever you install means pointless drift.

[square_usual]

Are you really sensitive to the minor/patch versions of node? I don't think it should make a difference whether you're using 20.9 or 20.12, and to me to that would be a bigger red flag.

Either way, I don't think many people are checking in tool-versions files. Most JS templates specify a range of node versions they work on and leave it to you to specify which one. I don't think this is unusual for most other languages I use, like ruby.

[cess11]

Maybe it works better with tmux?

[nmk]

> I hope the next decade will be oriented around integrating stateful message-oriented (reactive?) programming into the mainstream full stack

Also known as MVC before Rails decided to redefine the term.

[DonHopkins]

Java redefined the term MVC a long time after Smalltalk originally defined the term in the 70's. Rails didn't redefine the term, it much later copied the (poorly) redefined term from Java and tweaked it a little. Smalltalk MVC and Java/Rails MVC are EXTREMELY different. Java and Ruby's MVC are quite similar (and loosely based on a superficial misunderstanding Smalltalk's MVC).

[andrewflnr]

No, MVC is at best orthogonal to message-passing.

[klabb3]

Maybe? Most good ideas have been out there for decades. Getting the execution right is what’s hard.