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by onion2k 813 days ago
It usually takes about 3 days for a new worker to learn the job.

Starbucks hires juniors and trains them to be good baristas. That takes a long time. Just because someone is able to work a coffee machine after a few days doesn't mean they're not skilled eventually. Your argument is like saying 'it only takes a few days for junior devs to be onboarded, so there's no real value in senior devs'.
1 comments
rad_gruchalski 813 days ago
Yes, and McDonalds hires junior burger flippers and turns them into senior and skilled burger flippers.

It doesn’t take a phd to make a coffee, no matter how fancy the cinnamon/cocoa heart is.

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onion2k 813 days ago
It doesn’t take a phd to make a coffee, no matter how fancy the cinnamon/cocoa heart is.

All you're saying here is that you've failed to see the value in customer service, hospitality, speed, accuracy, politeness, etc that go with a retail coffeeshop job. The coffee is the same in pretty much every Starbucks, but the experience can vary wildly depending on how good the baristas are at everything else besides making coffee. Those skills take years to master.

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rad_gruchalski 813 days ago
Yes, that’s what I’m sort of saying. I haven’t failed to see any of that. But it doesn’t take a phd to make coffee politely or less politely. All I want is the coffee. Don’t ask me what my name is. I don’t care about the „experience”.
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onion2k 813 days ago
You do care about the experience though. Everyone does. If you have a bad experience you'll complain, or stop going to that Starbucks, or moan to your friends. To you, by the sounds of things, a good experience consists of asking for your order, paying, and getting out fast. An experienced retail worker will be able to read all that from your cues - not engaging in small talk, having your payment ready, moving along quickly, etc. They'll factor those things into their interactions with you, they'll remember you next time, and they'll make the experience what you want. All that takes time to learn, and few retail workers get good at it. I will concede that it doesn't require a PhD though. Few jobs do.
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rad_gruchalski 813 days ago
I don't go to Starbucks anyway because they just keep that stupid ritual of "what's your name" and they can never understand what I'm saying so we are just standing there on the opposite side of the counter exercising our knowledge of the military alphabet. If that's the sort of skill required, sorry, anyone can do it. Tell me - how long does it take to serve your first coffee at Starbucks as a barista?

Just sell me the damn coffee and bugger off with "experience". It doesn't require a "skilled" person to politely serve me a coffee. Just make sure the coffee doesn't taste like shit and I'll come back to you unless you spit at me or offend me. Again - no need to be "skilled" to not do that.

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bombcar 813 days ago
I think people talk past each other because one side takes "unskilled" to mean basically "anyone could do it with some training" (I can't run an espresso machine anymore, but I learned how in a few hours when I needed to). You get better at unskilled labor (anyone knows this, there are baristas who are much faster than others; able to run the entire shop which normally takes two).

The other side takes "unskilled" to be a derogatory term that means the worker isn't a human being with thoughts and wants and needs, and deserving of a wage.

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8note 810 days ago
The 10x developers don't exist. You can get somebody off a days experience to write a couple lines of code, so there's no skill involved in it.
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