[nico]

If panpsychism is right, consciousness is part of the fabric of the cosmos, you just can't separate consciousness from it. Does that mean that the cosmos is conscious itself, and what does that mean? I'm not sure, but it's pretty fascinating to think about

[tsimionescu]

Sure, and if certain Ancient Greek beliefs are right, thunder is smithed by the god Hephaestos in his forge under mount Etna for Zeus to throw at his enemies.

Is there any reason whatsoever to believe either of these?

[nico]

> Is there any reason whatsoever to believe either of these?

Not a reason, but there are many people that have had experiences that align with panpsychism

It's not necessarily something that you have to believe, like a made-up story. Instead, it's something that you can experience for yourself (either through yoga, meditation, breathing, psychedelics or other forms of attaining different states of consciousness)

Edit: (can't reply to the reply) @tsimionescu it seems you just want to contradict whatever I say, that's your personal opinion. If you want a reason, you can come up with a thousand different ones. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just offering a point of view for a, hopefully interesting, conversation

[tsimionescu]

You're giving a (very weak) reason - personal experience while in altered states of mind. Of course, people doing at least some of these practices also personally experience all sorts of other false things, many which they themselves don't believe when outside the altered state, such as vivid hallucinations.

[hackable_sand]

Altered state and personal experience are still a part of the fabric of reality though... They are just different configurations.

Granted only a few people have been able to transcend materialism since the beginning of history, but it's all the same either way.

Reality is axiomatic. Either we're here and a part if it or reality doesn't exist.

[tsimionescu]

Let me put it like this. When taking psychedelics, you may see long dead people, hear voices, etc. These things are real experiences, but that doesn't mean that the long dead person really came to visit you, it's just a construct of your mind under the effects of the psychedelic. That experience is of course an aspect of reality, but it is not proof that dead people can sometimes re-materialize and visit us. Not even the person who had the experience believes that (usually).

So in the same way, if under the effects of psychedelics you get a sense that everything around you is conscious in some way, that's a valid experience, but it does not mean we should take an absurd idea like panpsychism seriously as a theory of reality.