[TimPC]

If Canada took in half the number of immigrants it does it would still have one of the largest rates in the world. We are massive outlier for how many we are taking in and all sorts of things aren't keeping up with the demand. The biggest two are home building rates and the health care sector but there are other problems as well.

[robocat]

Canada has 21% immigrants[1] - it is not an outlier compared to AU/NZ. Canada needs 1/2 again as many immigrants to match Australia which has 30% already. I'm in New Zealand with 27% foreign born.

Net migration per 1,000 people (2023) figures[2] are: Australia 6.4, Canada 5.4, New Zealand 4.8

So Australia's immigrant population is also growing 20% faster than Canadas. (albeit emmigrant numbers included so perhaps I'm oversimplifying - I'm not familiar with Oz - but New Zealand has significant outflows).

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_...

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_...

[TimPC]

The relevant number is not so much how many people are born outside the country which can include 90 year olds who came to the country in WW2. But rather the YoY population growth from immigration, which is a more accurate measure of recent influx.

Canada welcomed 471,550 new permanent residents in 2023 and had an increase of roughly 550,000 temporary residents. That's a net influx of over 1M people for a country of over 40M. Most of Europe takes in about 1% of population in immigration not 2.5%. Australia targeted 195,000 permanent places and a total of 548,000 places across permanent and temporary programs. For a country of 26M that's 2.1% which is still extremely large but well below 2.5%.

Also even if we use your numbers, Canada mostly accelerated immigration in 2023 and 2024 but already by 2021 our immigration percentage was up to 23% according to our census so your numbers are badly out of date for measuring recent immigration. In terms of reaching 30% with a net influx of over 1M immigrants a year over those two years, Canada could be as high as 27% immigrant now. Which even if it is lower than the raw total in Australia I'm sure we can acknowledge is a very rapid change that puts major strain on services.

[robocat]

You are complaining about the first paragraph. The second and third paragraphs are about YoY growth rate.

I do try to write clearly, but I think you've replied thoughtlessly.

[TimPC]

Your data source has Canada's net migration at 249,000 which is absurdly small compared to Canada's own data. Canada's own data has migration out of the country at 94,576 people but for the 249,000 number to make sense that number would have to be closer to 750,000. It's clear we are using very different sources to calculate the numbers. I'm 100% convinced your source has badly incorrect data for Canada.

[robocat]

Ahhh, sorry.

Yeah that sounds like a significant difference.

I know nothing about Canada's immigration issues, but I did listen to a conservative podcast[1] the other day and at 20:30 it mentioned the 2023 numbers for Canada were:

• 1.27M immigrants

• 471k settling

• 804k temporary residents

So unless our sources are careful how they measure immigration there's a lot of scope for misunderstanding.

No idea why your number is 550k and the podcast mentions 804k.

> I'm 100% convinced your source has badly incorrect data for Canada.

The 249,000 number is sourced from a file provided by the World Bank. It isn't obvious where the World Bank get their number from. Don't ask me!!! Yeah, it looks wrong, but I don't care enough about the topic to go into it further.

Either way from the foreign born population percentages it is very clear that Australia and New Zealand have been accepting lots of immigrants for years and Canada would need to have much larger immigration numbers to get close to catching up.

If you are interested in the effects of immigration on Canada, then keep an eye on Australia and New Zealand to see how it is affecting them.

> For a country of 26M that's 2.1% which is still extremely large but well below 2.5%.

You are comparing chickens to bandicoots. Either compare residents or compare totals including temporary. You are being epically misleading to compare between the two.

From your own numbers, resident immigrant growth is ~1% for Canada (471k/40M) and 2.1% for Australia... I would guess New Zealand is around the 2% mark. I have little idea about temp numbers, but they are not zero.

I've personally just been looking at having a student guest rent a room at my place for $250 per week - students don't create as much pressure on housing. Permanent immigrants definitely do.

You seem to me to be trying to misinform.

When people talk about the problems of immigration they are not generally talking about temporary students and temporary workers. Might as well as add tourists on too - they are a contentious issue where I live.

I mostly care about immigration numbers, but you are using temp numbers. Yeah, Canada's temp numbers are whacko and that is discussed in the podcast: the temp student numbers surely can't be sustainable for Canada in the long term.

[1] https://thehub.ca/2024-03-29/this-government-is-oblivious-th...

[TimPC]

I think 804k is the number of new temporary residents and 550k is the number of net temporary residents. I think it's reasonable to care about the net change in population from immigration because people are going to strain services in mostly the same way whether they are temporary or permanent. I think many temporary residents do strain housing in similar ways though, Canada has seen a massive increase in demand that seems larger than the 1% number you cared about.

Also I think you're just willfully misinterpreting me at this point because the 2.1% number for Australia included temporary residents. The number for Australia based on only new permanent residents is 195,000/26M = 0.75%