[tetris11]

My old roommate has two british shorthairs, they're basically his kids. They live on the top floor of a four floor house, and never leave the 50m² apartment. They spend their days sleeping and doing not much else.

Down on the street, a neighbour also has a shorthair, almost an identical clone to my roommates. The cat has free reign of the neighbourhood, and the alertness in its eyes makes me realise that it has a much higher standard of living than my roommate's

[whateveracct]

All cats spend most of their day sleeping.

It is true that cats thrive when engaged. But it's very possible to engage indoor cats.

[zachmu]

Not in the same way.

I've had indoor and outdoor cats. And I've had indoor cats that we started letting outside. The change in their behavior when they have access to the outdoors is palpable. They come alive in a very obvious and dramatic way.

This isn't really surprising when you stop and think about it. We seldom make the argument that zoo animals are living their best lives compared to their wild cousins despite the objectively safer conditions of a zoo.

[whateveracct]

I think you're anthropomorphizing housecats a bit here. A housecat who gets multiple square meals of catfood a day, played with, gets to cuddle with their owner or other cats, and sleeps safely in the sun for 3/4 of the day will live a happier and longer [1] life than an outdoor cat.

Now, you have to still mind your indoor cat. They need stimulation (look up "eat hunt bathe sleep") and attention and a good diet and cat-friendly environment. But give them that, and there's really no argument that being outdoors is obviously better. It's more that the outdoors gives some of that stuff by default, so compared to a cat owner who doesn't fully invest in their cat, maybe there's a case.

But if you understand cats, you get that that "coming alive" isn't some "free at last" sort of thing.

[1] Outdoor cats die way earlier than indoor cats

[zachmu]

Just reporting what I've noticed from my own cats. There's an entire aspect of their personality that doesn't come out when they are restricted to indoors. I don't think it's possible to fully replicate what cats get from being outdoors, but a lot of people convince themselves it is.

Of course going outside is dangerous for cats. It's dangerous for people too but we still do it.

[whateveracct]

It's not the same kind of dangerous.

[devmor]

I don't think "alertness observed in eyes" is not an empirical measure of life quality as disease, lifespan, diet and temperament are generally considered.

If you believe that you have reasonably significant information to the contrary of the general consensus of Veterinary Science, I implore you to publish your research and begin the conversation so that more cats are treated better.

If, however, you realize that your hunch is simply anthropomorphism of a domesticated animal, I would ask you to reconsidered your preconceived notion.

[tetris11]

Can you provide articles I can read to update myself?

[devmor]

Certainly. Here are a few articles from reputable sources:

- https://spca.bc.ca/faqs/indoor-cats-vs-outdoor-cats/

- https://www.animalhumanesociety.org/resource/are-outdoor-cat...

- https://www.banfield.com/en/Wellness-at-banfield/kitten-hub/...

And because I found it interesting, this study that aligns more with your point of view that concluded that cats who are allowed to roam do get more intellectual fulfillment than indoor-only cats on average: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10451177/

I would also like to note that I have seen firsthand how much cats infected with FIV and FeLV suffer when not actively treated, and all other considerations aside, I would never let my cats roam outside without a leash because of the prevalence of those diseases alone.

[tetris11]

Thanks for these -- I guess supervised outdoor activities might be good compromise

[RcouF1uZ4gsC]

> and the alertness in its eyes makes me realise that it has a much higher standard of living than my roommate's

Or else the alertness in his eyes may indicate the number of times he has come close to dying.

I would guess a lot of kids in war torn parts of the world have more alertness in their eyes than kids in the US or EU, but it wouldn’t indicate a higher standard of living.

[tetris11]

he wasn't skittish, he just took interest in the world around him