First, like most of the Japanese manufacturers, Mazda bet against electric vehicles. They focused R&D on improving engine efficiency and getting their engines to run on hydrogen. If Mazda wants to make electric vehicles now, they have to play catch-up, or license key technologies from other manufacturers.
Second, batteries are heavy. For sedans and mid-size crossovers, this isn't much of a problem. EVs of that class are about the same weight as combustion vehicles. But for a lightweight sports car with decent range, batteries would be a big chunk of the total weight. Tesla's 85kWh battery weighs around 1,200lbs. If your desired weight is 2,500lbs, that only leaves 1,300lbs for the actual car. Yes you can save some weight by making the battery part of the structure, and you don't need an exhaust system, engine block, alternator, intake, etc, but it's still a tough set of constraints to work within.
Why do customers want sports cars to be light? Well all else equal, a lighter vehicle will have better performance. But even when all else isn't equal, vehicle weight can drastically affect driving enjoyment. I have a 4,048lb Model 3 Performance and a 2,182lb Mazda Miata. In terms of specs, the Model 3 is better in every way. It can accelerate, brake, and turn better than the Miata. It even has more range than the Miata. But the Model 3 feels like it's using brute force to beat inertia into submission. (Don't get me wrong, that can be fun.) The Miata is the opposite. Its light weight means that there's very little inertia to overcome, and something about that is extremely satisfying. It's almost like having a street legal go-kart. Until battery technology improves, an electric version just won't have the same appeal.
I agree with the adage, but brute force seems to win in this specific case. Even though it's the lightest model made, my Miata only gets 0.82g on the skidpad.[1] The Model 3 Performance gets 0.96g thanks to its wide tires, which are needed to transfer all its power to the asphalt.[2] This difference isn't just due to the 1990 Miata's older suspension and tire technology. Even the latest Miatas only get 0.90g of lateral acceleration.[3]
> I agree with the adage, but brute force seems to win in this specific case. Even though it's the lightest model made, my Miata only gets 0.82g on the skidpad
The current ND2 (2019+) Miata regularly pulls ~0.95 stock in magazine tests, almost identical to your model 3 Performance number.
You can exceed 0.95 and get ~1 on an ND Miata with slightly wider than OEM tires (still on stock rims) and a little more negative camber, which is widely done to the car by the enthusiast community. Similarly, you can get more out of your very own NA (1990) Miata with simple tire/alignment changes, even more with cheap new sway bars or springs etc.
To use a more fitting Lotus example here, the ~900kg Lotus Elise (50% of the weight of the Model 3 Performance) pulls 1g when tested by Car and Driver:
Yes and you can modify the Model 3 to increase cornering ability, but like in the case of the Miata it means increased tire wear, worse comfort, and worse mileage. Not to mention money.
My point was simply that even if you know vehicle A is twice as heavy as vehicle B, you don’t know for sure which one is faster in the turns.
> increased tire wear, worse comfort, and worse mileage… Not to mention money
It literally means none of this to change a miata as I described - we are talking a single degree of camber here not a race car. An alignment is normal maintenance - no change in price - and tires stay the same price if you go up a single size, so if you do this when getting new tires anyway it costs essentially nothing.
It’s a minor camber change (done at a standard alignment as normal, no extra special bits - just ask tech nicely). The tires will last just as long for your driving style and gas mileage unaffected. Comfort unchanged - no spring, damper or tire pressure changes.
The point this all makes is simple factors beyond weight have a huge bearing on constant lateral load car will sustain, to the point it’s almost pointless to compare weight and max corner load. You will never see car enthusiasts comparing weights of their cars and arguing in favour of more weight, almost ever. This entire comparison is pretty odd. No one who knows what they are talking about is going to question the classic Colin Chapman quote because physics didn’t change since his death - the concept of same car but lighter was faster in the 60s and 70s, and is still faster round a circuit today. It’s why race cars set faster lap times as the fuel tank depletes, which proves the point beyond doubt.
If you haven’t had a good alignment done to your NA recently get it done and don’t be scared of small adjustments, they won’t ruin anything - it does quite the opposite! - and the numbers that work great for all miatas are insanely well documented online. Steering feel will thank you for it. It’s the first thing I will have done to any generation of miata - they all benefit a lot, and usually arrive from factory not very accurately setup at all - you will see this when you have first alignment done and brand new car has initial numbers all over the place.
I’ve owned and maintained multiple examples of all four generations of the car over the last 20 years - a precision alignment with a touch more camber/toe is one of the easiest, best and cheapest (100-150 dollars typically in major US city) things you can do to the car - the miata is all about that steering feel which is easily corrupted.
Going with this theme, the idea of a battery car with longer range is appealing to me. However a smaller battery but quick charging would mostly remove the need.
I’m not sure I want to drive around with a capacitor in the boot, but a huge battery isn’t ideal either.
That's the whole thing right - most people don't actually care about having 600 miles of range, they care about being able to "refuel" quickly. My Mercedes AMG would only do like 200 miles on a tank of fuel and I don't ever recall having any kind of range anxiety with it, because you could gain all of it back within like 5 minutes and keep going.
It would be theoretically possible to have a small battery ("just a 60 mile/100km range, or even smaller) combined with a generator, but I don't know if markets would appreciate that.
This company Toyota started a pretty popular line of hybrid gas-electric cars, maybe 20 years ago, called Priuses. I think they sell pretty well. I see a lot of them running as taxis. The new ones can plug in and drive a few miles on the highway on pure electric before starting the gas engine.
Its called a series hybrid, there have been a small number of plug-in hybrids that used that design, they weren't successful in the US and are no longer in the US market. But that may not be anything particular about the technology; I wouldn't generalize from such a small set.
Our VW e-Up is just below 1200kg and has 150 miles range from a 36kWh battery, fits two of us, baby seat, and Costco shopping. You can absolutely have a lightweight electric car, just be realistic about what you're getting.
The Bugatti Veyron launched in 2005 with 1K horsepower and cost > $1M. As of last year, you could get a Dodge Challenger with 1K horsepower for <$100K. Those prices are unadjusted for inflation, so the price difference is even greater than 10x.
While it is not a guarantee, the innovations in today's supercars do tend to become much more common with time.
You’d think its a different time now that the kids who grew up lusting over these cars now have money for one, enough money to create a new car market where even a pickup truck can be almost six figures optioned out
I'm literally waiting for it, have been for quite a while. Small cars have numerous benefits over just being sporty. An electric, or even a hybrid 86/BRZ or miata would be great, but can't be compared to the mini or fiat, and while tesla might be fast, it's huge. Even with a price increase these could be more affordable than a lot of sports cars. The 86/BRZ has been a huge seller too.
The EV market is so frustrating right now. Everything seems to more or less be an SUV.
I wish someone would deliver something small, light, aerodynamic, stripped down and without features of marginal utility. Sportiness sort of comes for free.
The only important features for an EV are (excluding safety issues) are change speed and range. I might add a heat pump for the cabin (and battery in cold climes). Skip the screen and just let me use my phone and give me physical controls.
If a car marker thought seriously for a moment and resisted the full techno wank that is inflicted upon us at the moment, they'd make a lot of money.
It's a car, it's not that complicated, get back to basics.
I'm not really that interested in cars. We drive a Honda Fit (Jazz for the rest of the world). I was really excited 8+ years ago when Honda said they might do an EV version of the Fit/Jazz - just perfect for my wife and I, combining the great utility of the Fit/Jazz with our preferred power source, all in a reasonable sized and reasonably slick package (incredibly internal visibility also).
Not only has this not happened, Honda have even stopped selling the ICE version of the Fit in the USA. The closest thing to this concept - the Nissan Leaf - has also been discontinued in the N. American marketplace.
First, like most of the Japanese manufacturers, Mazda bet against electric vehicles. They focused R&D on improving engine efficiency and getting their engines to run on hydrogen. If Mazda wants to make electric vehicles now, they have to play catch-up, or license key technologies from other manufacturers.
Second, batteries are heavy. For sedans and mid-size crossovers, this isn't much of a problem. EVs of that class are about the same weight as combustion vehicles. But for a lightweight sports car with decent range, batteries would be a big chunk of the total weight. Tesla's 85kWh battery weighs around 1,200lbs. If your desired weight is 2,500lbs, that only leaves 1,300lbs for the actual car. Yes you can save some weight by making the battery part of the structure, and you don't need an exhaust system, engine block, alternator, intake, etc, but it's still a tough set of constraints to work within.
Why do customers want sports cars to be light? Well all else equal, a lighter vehicle will have better performance. But even when all else isn't equal, vehicle weight can drastically affect driving enjoyment. I have a 4,048lb Model 3 Performance and a 2,182lb Mazda Miata. In terms of specs, the Model 3 is better in every way. It can accelerate, brake, and turn better than the Miata. It even has more range than the Miata. But the Model 3 feels like it's using brute force to beat inertia into submission. (Don't get me wrong, that can be fun.) The Miata is the opposite. Its light weight means that there's very little inertia to overcome, and something about that is extremely satisfying. It's almost like having a street legal go-kart. Until battery technology improves, an electric version just won't have the same appeal.