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Look, here's the disagreement: >You've made this claim (thought without specifying why it's superior to the existing methods), and yet ignored the simple fact that a TIR post is just as bad, if not worse, then the post it replies to. At the very least, the post it replies to is at least, usually, on topic (Topicality is, of course, not the sole contributing factor to whether a comment is worthwhile). I'm not ignoring that fact - it's just that I haven't accepted it. I agree that TIR posts do not derive value from adding valuable on-topic content. But I've suggested a way for them to derive value from another source. Given that, I don't accept the claim that they are just as bad as the posts they reply to. I thought (and still do) that the argument you were offering takes that as a premise. That's the point I made in the last comment, and I took it to be sufficient to show why your argument doesn't go through. I'm very much happy to be corrected if that's not the argument you had in mind. The point about using existing tools/protocols is a different argument, and I think a good one. However, it doesn't bear on whether TIR posts are in themselves valuable or not - it only bears on the comparative value they have. Evaluation of that argument would require more knowledge than I have of the efficacy of different ways online communities enforce norms. Re the other points - I think there are interesting things to say about them, but I suspect that would take us off the central disagreement. I am however familiar with the other points about comment policy and downvotes etc... - I've used HN far longer than I've had this account. Whilst we're on issues of civility, I would say that suggesting comments come off as trolling, claiming people 'don't grasp' (which can mean 'don't understand'), and judging them on two sentence profiles don’t seem to me very useful. I was slightly brusque in claiming your comment was 'beside the point' - but did so to echo your comment. I think I should point out that I don't commit to the claim that TIR posts actually are valuable - I just think it's plausible that they are. |
Not in this community, which is the context we are discussing this in, after all. Given the other tools available, and given what is valued here, TIR are no better then the comments they reply to. Something you seem to be ignoring is value. Value in terms of respect, and of time, both yours, and others.
A TIR post is not respectful. It's used as an insult. It's an open insults. Given that their are other, more effective means to communicate disapproval, and that be replying, you are removing those means from your arsenal, it's clear that your intent is merely to insult.
A TIR is not respectful to others. By highlighting the post with further discussion, it wastes others time. Not only are you not operating to remove the parent comment from the discussion, but you are asking people to read your comment in reply, and to judge the merits of what is now a discussion. See, if the TIR post is left as is, then I must read the parent in order to understand context. If the TIR post is left as is, it's also a symbol that the comment is a good comment, and worthy of reading.
Do not confuse the intended goal of a TIR. I agree, the intent is good. But even if it accomplishes it's goal of having the parent retract his statement, it does so in a manner that is immature and rude. Being able to bully people into a position is not valuable.
I guess we'll continue to disagree on it's value. That being said, HN has it's policies, and I tend to agree with them, and will continue to down vote both TIR posts and the posts they reply to.