[mlyle]

Are you saying you are never influenced by consequences in choosing what to do?

I understand the magnitude of deterrence effects may be in question, or that the relative worth of different types of deterrence are open to debate. But I don't really understand how something that is nearly a universal human experience can be in question. Almost everyone has chosen not to do something because of the consequences of outside rules.

Indeed, we can easily try and see. If I fail to be visible during break duty (so that students think there are unlikely to be consequences), students will climb the volleyball net. :D

> going the speed limit here impedes the flow of traffic and makes a more dangerous situation for everyone).

This has been studied and is itself a silly (untrue) anecdote.

[rustcleaner]

Consequences are natural, punishments aren't.

[bee_rider]

> Are you saying you are never influenced by consequences in choosing what to do?

Nope.

> I understand the magnitude of deterrence effects may be in question, or that the relative worth of different types of deterrence are open to debate.

In the context of the thread

> A good prison system should balance all four.

I thought it would be clear that the magnitude and the relative worth were the topic. Sorry if that wasn’t the case! I’m definitely not going to defend the idea that nobody has ever avoided doing something for fear of punishment (although I do think that in a well functioning society, most of the negative consequences should be natural, not artificially imposed as punishments).

> If I fail to be visible during break duty (so that students think there are unlikely to be consequences), students will climb the volleyball net. :D

I think if that’s the sort of thing you are worried about, you must be working with kids. They probably need a stricter treatment, since their brains aren’t done yet.