[nivertech]

The only real peace (aka "normalization") we have (had?) is with the UAE.

We only have "peace" with Egypt and Jordan on paper.

This is much worse than a cold war situation between the US and the Soviet Union back in the time.

Their armies still define Israel as their main enemy.

These countries are not safe for Israelis to travel.

In Jordan's case we only have "peace" with the foreign royal family imposed by Britain. And even that doesn't include their queen ;)

And yes, US provided and still provides military aid to terror group such as PLO, Fatah, even Hamas and PIJ (under the pretext of humanitarian aid).

US even removed Houthis from the list of terror group in order to give them money (and just recently put them back on the list).

Similarly with lifting sanctions on Iran, which resulted in giving them $10B.

---

  U.S. Foreign Assistance to the Middle East:
  Historical, Recent Trends, and the FY2024
  Background Request
  Updated August 15, 2023

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R46344

[JacobiX]

From the same report, "U.S. Foreign Assistance to the Middle East": Israel has been the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II, receiving $158 billion. Jordan for example received $26.4 billion from 1951 to 2020.

>> Similarly with lifting sanctions on Iran, which resulted in giving them $10B.

In the case of Iran, it was not a matter of receiving $10 billion in aid, but rather the release of $10 billion of Iranian funds that had been frozen.

[nivertech]

> From the same report, "U.S. Foreign Assistance to the Middle East": Israel has been the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II, receiving $158 billion. Jordan for example received $26.4 billion from 1951 to 2020.

Check again, the majority of the "aid" got to our enemies in MENA (and that excluding non-Arab enemy and semi-enemy countries, which are for some reason not included in MENA).

Look at:

  - Figure 2. U.S. Foreign Aid to MENA Countries: FY1946-FY2020
  - Figure 3. Israel, Jordan, and Egypt in the FY2024 Assistance Request for MENA
  - Table 1. U.S. Bilateral Aid to MENA Countries: FY2021 - FY2024 Request

The majority of this "aid" (~56%) goes to enemies and semi-enemies (and that's even excluding hostile non-Arab countries in the region).

--

>> Similarly with lifting sanctions on Iran, which resulted in giving them $10B.

> In the case of Iran, it was not a matter of receiving $10 billion in aid, but rather the release of $10 billion of Iranian funds that had been frozen.

Did I wrote somewhere that Iran got $10B aid?

What you wrote is factually correct, but the net effect is that Iran got $10B which they didn't had access to before.

[JacobiX]

Not sure why you consider those countries as ennemies (or semi-enemy) ?

For example, Jordan has maintained a position as a key major non-NATO ally of the United States within the Middle East (since 1996).

Also starting from 1989, both Egypt and Israel became major non-NATO allies of the US.

[nivertech]

> from 1989, both Egypt and Israel became major non-NATO allies of the US.

Just b/c somebody is an ally of the US, doesn't make them automatically an ally of Israel.

Paraphrasing: An ally of my ally is not my ally.

But with the current leadership and State Dept we are not sure that even US is our ally.

--

Türkiye is a member of NATO, with antisemitic leader. Is Türkiye a friendly country? It used to be, but now it's a gray area.

[Trans-]Jordan's royal family is on life support from Israel, but it still openly acts like an enemy.

Egypt is the most obviously an enemy, even though there is "peace" on paper. Instead of asking me, ask an average Egyptian or [Trans-]Jordanian if they see Israel as an enemy.

Just b/c US pays them extortion or "protection" fees, doesn't make them any less of an enemy. It only delays the coming inevitable military conflict with them.

--

We are not that far from NATO planes bombing Tel Aviv and carrying out SEAD operations[1].

If in the past it was a Sci Fi scenario, nowadays it becomes much more plausible.

---

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppression_of_Enemy_Air_Defen...

[lostlogin]

> We are not that far from NATO planes bombing Tel Aviv and carrying out SEAD operations

I think you might be perceiving things as more threatening than is warranted. Lebanon and Egypt are complicated neighbours and may not quite be friends. NATO isn’t going to bomb Tel Aviv.

[lostlogin]

That puts rather a different spin on things. Arming one with weapons, versus letting the other have its money.

Neither meet my definition of ‘aid’.

[nivertech]

> versus letting the other have its money

OK, let Putin have his money then.

The truth is, US giving "aid", imposing or lifting sanctions exactly to protect their interests, and to increase their leverage, not because they care about other countries in question.

For decades our country tries to get rid of this "aid", but it's virtually impossible.

[lostlogin]

I completely agree. However I assume you exclude Israel and you’d like to keep American aid?

[nivertech]

No, we don't need it. This "aid" is a net loss for us.

It’s the reason US State Dept treats us like Puerto Rico, without giving us any of the perks of Puerto Rico's status, like tax exemption and unrestricted access to the US mainland.

Netanyahu tried to get rid of American military "aid" in the past, but he failed to do so.

Aid must be spent to purchase arms from American suppliers at greatly inflated prices.

It also creates perverse incentives that ultimately weakens, if not cripples, our military.

[lostlogin]

You want US backing but not the military aid?

Israel without US backing seems a perilous place for Israel to go, and if accepting the aid keeps the alliance alive, surely that’s in Israel’s interest?

Thanks for the explanations - I haven’t come across these viewpoints before.

[lostlogin]

It’s so complicated.

Hamas was elected if memory serves, and while getting them to renounce violence would seem ideal, how could they? Israel wasn’t going to. They have behaved terribly and until someone starts behaving better, it’s going to carry on as it has for so long. Peace with Egypt has been maintained and relations with Egypt seem to be improving and are ok - what am I missing? There seems very little chance of war.

[nivertech]

Egypt violated almost every signed treaty.

Sinai was supposed to be a demilitarized zone, slowly it was filled with the Egyptian army. Egypt built multiple tunnels under the Suetz canal.

Yet our governments and military still trying to appease them, in the same way as they did to Hamas.

And how do you think all these advanced weapons (RPGs, anti-tank missiles, thermal bombs, etc.) got into 'azza[1]? How did their terrorists go to train in Iran?

Why do you think Egypt opposes an Israeli presence on the border in Raphiakh[2]?

---

[1,2] I'm using the original biblical place names here, instead of the English distortion of a broken Arabic pronunciation of their Hebrew names.

[lostlogin]

I’m surprised at this. According to the Wiki, Israel has agreed to Egyptian military being there. Relations have thawed a lot as far as I can tell.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt–Israel_peace_treaty

[nivertech]

> Yet our governments and military still trying to appease them, in the same way as they did to Hamas.

They turn a blind eye and try to appease Egypt, but it never works in the long run.

Our politicians and generals think short-term, they just want to finish their term and get their lavish pensions, and lucrative security contracts from the US, or a high-paying position in some Washington-funded military research think tank.