[m463]

What if an alternative is cheaper?

customers end up paying in the end.

edit: in the end. I guess the place I notice it is paying for gas - see the cash vs credit price always shown on the sign.

It is pretty easy to add up when you're spending $100+ on gasoline.

but this affects everything we buy, just hidden.

[tonyarkles]

> customers end up paying in the end.

Not in a transparent way, generally speaking. And at least in Canada you couldn't even (as a business) add a credit card surcharge to a purchase price. Now you can, so long as you're simultaneously complying with the legislation (https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/services/...) and your contract with your payment processor (e.g. https://www.visa.ca/content/dam/VCOM/regional/na/canada/Supp...).

Apparently, too, merchants aren't actually charged for Apple Pay, it's the banks themselves that are. Merchants apparently pay the regular charge to their payment processor whether I use my Visa-through-Apple Pay or my Visa as a physical card. https://paymentdepot.com/blog/apple-pay-fees-for-merchants/

At any rate, Apple Pay is ridiculously convenient compared to anything my bank has ever come up with. The last time there was a Pay With Bank $X thing on a website that I tried, I ended up getting directed through some kind of Verified by Visa thing where they were asking for some kind of security code that I don't recall ever setting up. Or... I can double-tap the power button on my phone to verify a payment I'm making on my laptop. If the banks are unhappy about giving a cut to Apple, my recommendation to them would be: Suck Less.

[stale2002]

> Not in a transparent way, generally speaking

There are ways to get around that.

For example, a bank could offer partial rewards for using their payment system, over Apple's. The effect would be the same as passing on the savings to the consumer.

[tonyarkles]

Given the software that banks generally produce, it’d have to be a sufficiently good reward. If I’m buying a $10 sandwich at a deli counter, I’m going to double tap my power button and tap my phone on the debit machine. A $0.03 cash back isn’t worth the hassle to fish around to find my bank’s app, enter a secure password, and then enter a 2FA code. I had another comment elsewhere in this thread: want me to use the bank app instead of Apple Pay? Make the bank app suck less.

[FridgeSeal]

I don’t get charged for using Apple Pay, I get charged for the processing fee for the card I used (which is an entirely separate discussion), and given the option between “just continue using Apple Pay” or “download several janky apps just because the bank wants its own wallet impl”, I’m going to stick with Apple Pay.

[jdminhbg]

The Apple Pay take is 15 bps, which is not a difference customers care about enough to change behavior even slightly.

[icehawk]

I don't pay anything extra for using Apple Pay, as a customer, how could it be cheaper?

[toast0]

If Apple is getting 0.15% as stated in a sibling, it's coming from somewhere. Maybe it's added on top of the fees the merchant pays, and like other payment fees gets kind of mixed into the price of everything you buy. Maybe it comes out of the fees your bank gets on purchases, which will reduce their income and then they'll need to increase fees, reduce benefits for depositors, or reduce dividends to investors.