[palata]

Well we are pretty capable of predicting, right now, that our civilization is very likely to collapse in the next few decades because we can't seem to address the climate/biodiversity problems (which are consequences of the abundance of fossil fuels that will end soon).

> We take over the galaxy or die trying.

Let's first survive on Earth, shall we?

[pfdietz]

How does loss of biodiversity cause civilization to collapse in the next few decades?

[Qem]

Loss of keystone species[1]. Say, if bees went extinct, our agriculture would come crashing. We still rely on other organisms for a lot of important, sometimes poorly understood until too late[2] functions that sustain our civilization.

[1]. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_species [2]. https://bfi.uchicago.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/BFI_WP_2...

[pfdietz]

If bees went extinct, it would affect none of the essential crops we grow. Grains are wind pollinated, not insect pollinated.

More generally, I'm sure extinctions would wreak havoc on wild ecosystems. But we grow food by explicitly destroying wild ecosystems, replacing them with monocultures. Crops seem to grow just fine anyway.

[CatWChainsaw]

I think it's a bit telling/alarming that you seem to be "okay" with monocultures and mass extinctions because we don't seem to be affected (at the moment).

[pfdietz]

This discussion is about the claim it causes civilization to collapse, not whether I'm okay with it. But hey, thanks for steering this in an ad hominem direction.

[palata]

Which you steered there because you wanted to be nitpicky about the biodiversity issue, where what I originally said was that civilization is likely to collapse because we can't seem to address the climate, biodiversity and energy problems.

But hey, thanks for steering it in an ad hominem direction.

[CatWChainsaw]

Everyone else: "Maybe killing off the majority of the species in an ecosystem will have Bad Consequences."

You: "Looks like bullshit to me." (<- your words~)

Unimpressive.

[bamboozled]

Let's try not to find out?

[palata]

Don't worry, the energy and climate problems can each independently cause civilization to collapse in the next few decades ;-).

But if you don't understand how we need biodiversity to survive, I guess try to eat ChatGPT or Starship.

[pfdietz]

Ah, I didn't think you had a justification for the claim. Empty hot air.