[nkassis]

See this is the crux of what I thought this movement was about. Logical and Algorithmic thinking is what people should be getting from learning to code. This is a fundamental thing like critical thinking which schools have a really hard time making kids learn.

Plus I have to agree with you that today I wouldn't recommend my path to others trying to learn to program. It wouldn't make any sense.

[zedshaw]

I think you're applying boolean logic where there is none.

I wouldn't say that people should always totally be logical. That's stupid because logic ignores context which is very relevant in the real world.

I would say that one of the skills it teaches is the ability to think more logically. I also actually don't think that's the best skill it teaches. I think it gives people a bunch of other skills, and that "logic" is kind of secondary to the others.

[nkassis]

"I wouldn't say that people should always totally be logical."

Oh no, I didn't mean to imply that. What I meant is I believe it's a skill everyone should have, using it or not is a situation based thing.

I believe learning to program is a good vehicle to learn that skill in school.

"I would say that one of the skills it teaches is the ability to think more logically. I also actually don't think that's the best skill it teaches. I think it gives people a bunch of other skills, and that "logic" is kind of secondary to the others."

I agree, it's definitively not the only thing it teaches. Same as Math not just being about learning to count, add, multiply... Yet you should know how to do those things.

[Produce]

I have to disagree with the sentiment that programming has anything to do with logical thinking. You can write awesome programs on feeling alone. For example, when I'm debugging, I don't think, I simply let my mind explore the catacombs and the solution bubbles up from my subconscious. The benefit which logic brings to the table is being able to communicate your ideas clearly.

Critical thinking is useful but it's not a golden hammer and, in this community, is vastly overrated. Balance between thinking and feeling, on the other hand, is of vital importance.

[keithpeter]

"For example, when I'm debugging, I don't think, I simply let my mind explore the catacombs and the solution bubbles up from my subconscious."

http://press.princeton.edu/titles/5896.html

Get a copy from your nearest library. You are operating in the same mode as most creative mathematicians. My girlfriends at University had to cope with a shorthand pad and pen on the bedside, and being totally ignored for 24 hours at a stretch when the ideas came.

The subconscious only works when fully primed by the way. You must know your code very well for the links to 'bubble up' like that.

[Produce]

Definitely grabbing a copy of that, I had no idea.

Incidentally, I'm one of those developers who hate intellisense and prefer to memorise the code structure, I guess that's where the priming is happening.

Thanks for expanding my awareness.

[keithpeter]

Thanks for that, I work as a teacher and people give me money for helping people expand their awareness. Always amazes me that they do :-)

[nkassis]

I definitively don't think it displaces creativity. I think it actually improves it in a sense. Hones creativity and makes it sharper. And as you said it makes it easier to communicate ideas more clearly. Definitively something important for programming.

I don't see any of these things being on their own the golden hammer. I like to view these skills (creativity, critical thinking, logical thinking...) as empowering each other. Programming is how I believe I got a lot of those things. Maybe I'm wrong and it's not the best way to go to get these for others.

" I simply let my mind explore the catacombs and the solution bubbles up from my subconscious."

I think the subconscious can be trained and get better.