[hdlothia]

During the rule of al-Mutawakkil, the tenth Abbasid Caliph, numerous restrictions reinforced the second-class citizen status of dhimmīs and forced their communities into ghettos.[15] For instance, they were required to distinguish themselves from their Muslim neighbors by their dress.[16] They were not permitted to build new churches or synagogues or repair old churches according to the Pact of Umar.

Is this an accurate portrayal of the good relations you describe or an exception? It's hard to find unbiased accounts of what Jewish-Islamic relations were like pre-israel, especially since both sides have an agenda to push.

[someotherperson]

There are examples of widespread persecution, but this is incredibly low effort. Al-Mutawakkil (who was Uzbek and Greek, for what it's worth) was a psychopath that didn't represent the general Islamic view. The pressures he placed on Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians and even other internal Islamic sects was not a popular view. Christians were regularly teaming up with Muslims to riot against the bad leadership[0].

The idea that it was enforced is even more dubious. The decrees were racist, sure, but unlike his more insane personalized antics (like when he ordered a holy Zoroastrian tree be cut down and shipped to him so he can build his house out of it[1]) the vast majority of the Islamic world didn't agree or support any of it and it was unlikely that any of it was actually enforced. He had little support outside of the Turkic world and a North African militia group, and even that was far and few inbetween.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homs_revolts_(854%E2%80%93855)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypress_of_Kashmar

[hdlothia]

I'm not sure the articles you cited are enough to prove that all of his decrees went un-enforced but I appreciate the rebuttal and added context. What we can both agree on is there was widespread persecution and the relationship was not as rosy as some would claim.

[someotherperson]

Well, the more serious decrees (such as demolition of churches to punish Christian groups) didn't happen[0], so by extension we can assume that the much more minor ones weren't likely enforced either.

But yeah to call it all rosy is definitely rewriting history. All Abrahamic faiths are hyper-aggressive and whenever we've seen politicization of one we see the suffering of other faiths. Of course on differing degrees as different leaderships and empires came and went.

[0] Almost all of these churches were eventually destroyed/taken over later, sometimes centuries later, but not during his lifetime.

[rat9988]

You seem hell-bent on not compromising with his position despite writing we can both agree. Can you agree that in the more-than-a-millenia of history there were some rosy relationships without widespread persecution too?

[g8oz]

And yet this hardly compares to what happened in Europe during the medieval period.

[hdlothia]

It seems like neither the Christian world or the Islamic world have been safe havens for Jewish people.