[giraffe_lady]

I think it's only marginally useful for programming to be part of a broad education. You need fairly sophisticated programming (and non-programming, like git, tooling, etc) skills to do most things worth doing and the barrier is only getting higher.

Our society runs on code sure, but it also runs on alloys and we don't expect a well-educated person to know industrial metallurgy either you know? It certainly makes sense to teach some models of computation, computers aren't magic and shouldn't be thought of that way. But it's fine to treat programming as a highly specialized technical domain like actuary or crop science or eye surgery or welding or whatever. Plenty of important useful concrete skills are not taught except to people expecting to use them professionally.

Anecdotally though I know a lot more creative and humanities people who can code than I do programmers who can dance or write a poem. The self-identity of "computer people" has long been as an aggrieved, besieged outgroup. To whatever extent we are alien I think we chose that for ourselves. We can change it but we shouldn't start by blaming anyone else for it.

[a_puppy]

> I think it's only marginally useful for programming to be part of a broad education.

On the contrary, I think a few semesters of basic computing can teach a lot of valuable skills:

- Basic Python skills are sufficient for a lot of scientific data analysis.

- Computing has become an important part of society; so, understanding how computers work is important for being an informed citizen. E.g. understanding the limitations of Incognito Mode in a web browser; or what Bitcoin is and what it isn't; or the difference between centralized platforms and the fediverse.

- Perhaps most importantly, teaching people Python will help dispel the myth that software is some kind of incomprehensible magic.

Certainly, a few semesters studying Python wouldn't be enough to get a high-paying CS job; but it would be no less valuable than a few semesters spent studying French.

> The self-identity of "computer people" has long been as an aggrieved, besieged outgroup. To whatever extent we are alien I think we chose that for ourselves.

There's a very real history of negative stereotyping about nerds. It's not OK for you to ignore that or pretend it didn't happen. I never consented to be stereotyped, excluded, or treated as alien.

[patmorgan23]

I 100% disagree. Teaching basic programming is teaching how computers actually work.

We're running into tons of computer literature issues right now. Lots of people coming out of highschool today don't know what a file tree is because everything they've used up until this point is in an app or browser.

We don't teach everyone how to be electricians or plumbers, but we do teach everyone the basics of how electricity and plumbing work.

It's important that people understand the basics of how the things they interact with every day work.

[sn9]

There's a tremendous amount of waste and inefficiency in non-technical knowledge work that could be solved if it was expected that a well-rounded education included teaching someone how to do some basic scripting.