[verisimi]

> think about crowded grocery stores and restaurants. Think community spaces like parks and libraries being packed all the time. Think about never being able to stop and get a coffee without waiting in a long line.

It also changes behaviour. People are under stress all the time. It's not a nice or natural way to live. But it is easier to govern people.

[rsynnott]

I really think people underestimate how much of this is down to _taste_. Personally I've lived in pretty sparse suburbs of Dublin (by European standards, anyway; think semi-detached houses, as far as the eye can see), in the city centre, and in dense inner suburbs (walking distance to the centre, generally terraced houses and apartment buildings). I wouldn't consider going back to an outer suburb, never mind a rural area. But I know some people who live in the middle of nowhere and love it! Couldn't do it, myself.

[digging]

...This is the state of people living under car-dependency, not dense urbanism supported by public transit and walkable areas. Car noises stress people out, make them irritable, impact their health. Driving in traffic makes people angry/furious/insane (literally - it is not sane to pull a gun on someone driving past you but it happens). Prioritizing parking and roads is a colossal misuse of land which causes crowded public spaces; imagine if every parking lot was an additional market or park.

[verisimi]

But, they are closing roads making them one way etc, that creates the traffic problem. It's bad governance - creating pain to allow government to administer the preordained 'solution' - no cars!

Moving to car less city is the goal, but, as others note, the infrastructure is not there. So you're just pushing cars out... with no real answers being provided.

How is that good government?

And the roads you call mismanagement are already there! Removing them, deteriorating their use is what's new...

[digging]

This has nothing to do with my comment or what I was replying to, which was a comment about crowded public spaces.

[triceratops]

> People are under stress all the time. It's not a nice or natural way to live

You might be thinking of packed slums in a developing country.

> But it is easier to govern people.

Ah yes, like the French, a famously docile people who never, ever rise up against their government.

[orwin]

We just like to be vocal and share our disagreements publicly. It used to force a bit of honesty (it's not working much right now)