[boffinAudio]

Simply put, every statement you've made is false.

From where do you derive your propaganda - the same media organizations, owned by the bomb manufacturers currently reaping immense profit from Ukraines' dire situation, maybe .. ?

[jnsaff2]

Is it the bomb manufacturers that put Ukraine into a dire situation or the ones actually bombing Ukraine?

[boffinAudio]

Follow the money. The only ones reaping any reward from the utter destruction of Ukraine and its people, are Western arms manufacturers, whose profits have skyrocketed since the CIA opened up the market for their weapons sales and deliveries ..

[jnsaff2]

Answer the original question.

[boffinAudio]

Its the politicians who put Ukraine into the dangerous position, by not employing diplomacy to ensure that peaceful relations were kept with their neighbors.

And its the bomb makers, and their willing media lackeys (whom are owned by the bomb makers), who are convincing the gullible American public that it is in their interests (it really isn't) to get involved in yet another heinously evil, disgusting war - this, after having also convinced their willful subjects to invade and destroy Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia .. exactly the same folks involved in Ukraine.

One bomb dropped every twenty minutes, for the past twenty years. We're almost running out of places for America's ruling oligarch classes to extract a profit through their war-mongering ...

[jnsaff2]

russians are bombing Ukraine. No matter how much mental gymnastics you try to go through it does not change the fact that russians are doing it. They started it they are the ones operating the bombers and guns.

[mopsi]

> Simply put, every statement you've made is false.

No. These are well-known facts, public record. On 22nd February 2014, the Ukrainian parliament voted 328-0 in favor of removing Yanukovych from office after what he had done. Even his own party released a statement condemning him. Elections for the new president were held in May of the same year. Which part of this is "CIA coup"? Is it a "CIA coup" every time a parliament holds a vote of no confidence to remove someone from a public office? If that's the case, then many countries in Europe have a "CIA coup" every few years as failed politicians are voted out of office, usually because of corruption or incompetence.

> From where do you derive your propaganda - the same media organizations, owned by the bomb manufacturers currently reaping immense profit from Ukraines' dire situation, maybe .. ?

No. I can't think of a single media outlet in my country connected to "bomb manufacturers" in any way. One media group is centered around an old newspaper publisher, another group is centered around a medical supplier that has branched into media and retail business, and the third major one is public broadcasting. So you have to somehow connect a dog food retailer to the war if you want to pursue the profiteering angle.

[boffinAudio]

The CIA have been conducting clandestine operations in Ukraine from the beginning of the colour revolutions until present day. If your view of Ukraine begins on February 22, 2014, you're missing a huge chunk of the picture - either disingenuously, or through dire ignorance.

>many countries in Europe have a "CIA coup"

Yes, they do indeed, because the CIA views Europe as an enemy to the superiority of the American people, and performing these kinds of coups is entirely within its purposes as a counter-democratic, sovereignty-invalidating agency.

> Is it a "CIA coup" every time a parliament holds a vote of no confidence to remove someone from a public office?

Quite often, yes it is. The CIA conduct operations forcing the political change they want to see - and this definitely occurred in the case of Ukraine. See also, the Whitlam government in Australia, where they refined the technique.

[mopsi]

> The CIA have been conducting clandestine operations in Ukraine from the beginning of the colour revolutions until present day. If your view of Ukraine begins on February 22, 2014, you're missing a huge chunk of the picture - either disingenuously, or through dire ignorance.

Indeed - speaking of clandestine operations, here's how Ukrainian president (2005-2010) Viktor Yushchenko looked before and after Russians poisoned him: https://i.imgur.com/H3R7yF8.jpeg

The poisoning happened two months before 2004 presidential elections. Russians poisoned the prime challenger to their puppet, and boosted their puppet further with widespread election fraud that was later overturned by Ukrainian supreme court.

This is how an actual coup attempt looks like.

> Yes, they do indeed, because the CIA views Europe as an enemy to the superiority of the American people, and performing these kinds of coups is entirely within its purposes as a counter-democratic, sovereignty-invalidating agency.

CIA is not the prime mover in the world and the only reason why anything ever happens. For example, last week the Estonia minister of justice resigned because he had used his personal allowance against established rules by renting an apartment from his wife's adult son from another marriage. While he was aware that he couldn't rent an apartment from a relative (anti-corruption rule), he didn't know that the son would qualify as a relative too under these rules. He fucked up and resigned. This had nothing to do with the CIA, nor do many other things going on in the world. To claim otherwise is to be ignorant of the complexities of the world.

When it comes to Eastern Europe, the CIA is not even in the top three most influential intelligence organizations.

[boffinAudio]

>This is how an actual coup attempt looks like.

There is no "one true way to coup" - what you are describing is the propaganda you have consumed that makes you believe your nation could never do something so heinous as poison its opponents, imprison them indefinitely without charge, etc - when in fact, it DOES do that - in spades - and you are really just projecting. What you are describing is how Hollywood protrays coups, lol.

Anyway.. Your straw man arguments are interesting, but this:

>When it comes to Eastern Europe, the CIA is not even in the top three most influential intelligence organizations.

Is curious. Its not through lack of trying!

Its just that there is MUCH resistance to American imperialism in that region. Thankfully!

[mopsi]

> There is no "one true way to coup"

True - but the poisoning of Yushchenko was a thing that actually happened, and it is not fiction like the story about 2014 CIA coup in Ukraine. By the way, the puppet that Russians backed then was Yanukovych, the same man who later successfully became the president of Ukraine and sabotaged EU aspirations under Russian orders, then shot protesters and fled the country when he lost all political backing that he had and was facing criminal charges. History didn't start in 2014 indeed.

> your nation could never do something so heinous as poison its opponents, imprison them indefinitely without charge, etc - when in fact, it DOES do that

I am not an American, and if you came here and told everyone how our government poisons opponents and imprisons people indefinitely, you'd get very strange looks and genuine concern about your mental health. :)

> Its just that there is MUCH resistance to American imperialism in that region.

You are so boxed in with the "CIA vs the world" narrative of the Anglosphere that you miss the fact that in our region, it's FSB, SVR and GRU against SÄPO, SUPO, KAPO, VDD, VSD, SB, SBU and others. How many of these abbreviations do you even recognize without googling? "American imperialism" is not a thing that people here have any reason to talk about. The modern western self-loathing is non-existent, found only on Twitter among teenagers who have consumed a little too much of American media and pop-culture. The imperialism that we are facing comes from Russia. We don't want to live under a Russian version of Jim Crow laws like 35 years ago. We don't want to see our cities destroyed, people murdered, women and children raped, language and culture wiped out.

Foreign dignitaries have often been struck by a gallery in our presidential palace. The gallery displays paintings of all former heads of state, with their birth and death dates and locations. There's a repeating pattern: almost everyone from the pre-WII period have names of remote Russian towns and dates from 1941 or 1942. They were sent into labor camps and executed there. The few who managed to avoid imprisonment and escape to the free world lived long lives and died much later in exile in places like Stockholm, London, Toronto.

The war in Ukraine gives us much more reason to talk about Russian imperialism than about American imperialism. You are very right that history didn't start in 2014, nor in 1776. The war is just the most recent example of a very old pattern of Russian behaviour that started well before the first settlers heading for America climbed into their boats.

[boffinAudio]

I'm not 'boxed in' with anything except an extremely acute understanding of the magnitude of the crimes WE commit in OUR imperial wars, started by fascist oligarchs who have decided that cultures they deem inferior shall be met with our military might. You, on the other hand, do not seem to have an understanding of this magnitude, at all.

You can do nothing about Russia's war criminals, until you do something effective about YOUR OWN. Following OUR OWN war criminals into yet another facetious, illegal war on the basis of lies and propaganda, instead of DEMANDING justice for their victims, is just pure evil.

WE have been murdering millions of people in OUR illegal wars, fought far beyond our own borders, at a rate far, far more detrimental to world peace than anything Russia has been doing. Russia, fighting a defensive war on its own 2000-km long border with Ukraine, is in NO WAY comparable to the heinous human catastrophe we have caused, by way of the machinations of an out of control military industrial complex hell-bent on what are fundamentally racist wars in .. Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Somalia ... Yemen. And many, many more theatres beyond the range of civilian observation.

>We don't want to live under a Russian version of Jim Crow laws like 35 years ago.

The world does not want to live like Americans do, either. We've seen the bankrupt families living under the bridges. We've seen the addiction and the war crimes and the crimes against humanity. We've seen your for-profit prison-industrial slavery system. We've seen the weapons you drop on innocent people while ensuring your own children have no future.

We've seen the network - a thousand of them - of secret bases the American empire has built in order to give itself a place to torture and commit further heinous crimes against humanity.

We saw what you did to Julian Assange and the many others who came before him, attempting to right the heinous injustices of your military industrial complex and its vile, evil intelligence services, usurping sovereign nations across the globe for the purposes of the misanthropic oligarch class that rules you, through your military junta.

Your hatespew of Russia is noted as yet another form of cowardice. Spend a trillion dollars on diplomacy per year, instead of murdering innocent people every twenty minutes, as you have done for twenty years, and you might find that the rest of the world is willing to play with America, again. As it stands, the USA is losing the respect of a majority of the nations of the world, whose citizens do not cowardly shy away from observing the results of American war crimes, which are committed in your name whether you have the temerity to confront them, or not.

You are merely propagandizing for war. I demand you start making peace, American. The world tires of your excuses for the death of millions of innocent people. The moral imperative you claim is a dire fallacy.