[FrustratedMonky]

Guess this is the crux:

"The full specification of a "world" in mathematical terms doesnt require intelligence. At that point you can use the dumb strategies of alphago."

I fall in camp that humans are just glorified amoeba, twitching at stimuli.

Eventually an AI could model 'us' with dumb strategies, because really baked into the human brain/body are just dumb strategies.

[mjburgess]

Dumb is the wrong word, lets say, cheating.

All AI at the moment is just cheating with a fake UI.

We don't learn about the world by first being told what it is like. If you can fully specify an abstract system in mathematics, or use a historical corpus to answer questions --- you're nothing more than a kid cheating.

You seem to think that cynicism requires believing that animals are not, by construction, any different to incredibly absurdly dumb engineered works of our most over hyped morons.

This isnt cynicism, or scepticism, or erudition or sophistication. It's meglomania.

The whole history of evolution has not produced, in us and most animals, the most complex object (, likely,) in the entire universe to do something that alphago is doing. The level of ego here is off the charts.

This view is only a product of a pround ignorance of zoology (and so on) -- and a deep deep anti-intellectualism which says, "reality is easy to know, just build a computer program"