[boffinAudio]

I, too, can see Russia from here.

On the basis of your moral imperative, there are no Western nations worthy of the peace, either.

Its not like NATO isn't responsible for wide-spread destruction of sovereign democracies, also ..

That's entirely besides the point. These entities should be making peace with each other in spite of each others crimes.

It is your propaganda which precludes peace, because you are convinced, without rational thought, that peace is impossible... whereas, there was actually a peace deal brought to the table, nix'ed by NATO ..

[jnsaff2]

What crime is Ukraine guilty of? Ukraine is not in NATO.

One side is murdering and the other side should make peace by being murdered?

What is my country guilty of?

[boffinAudio]

Ukraine invited NATO-aligned actors to set up bases along its borders with Russia. That has been considered by the Russians to be an aggressive act warranting a hostile response.

I don't agree with the invasion and destruction of Ukraine's eastern regions to be an appropriate response - but me, not agreeing with something, doesn't make it propaganda.

Propaganda is "NATO and Ukraine have done nothing wrong, Russia are just inventing reasons". This propaganda is designed to prevent you from having a rational look at the reasons. Propaganda shuts down continued thought on the subject - I invite you to consider that perhaps you have not thought enough about why the Russians are willing to sacrifice so much, on their own borders.

Just as you are inviting me to really, really think about whether Ukraines' actions warranted this heinous response. (Clue: I don't agree with any war, or that there is any such things as an honorable war these days. No nation state is worth the life of another human being, period. Both Russian and Ukrainian citizens as well as their ruling political classes should be reminded of this fact, repeatedly.)

[jnsaff2]

> Beginning with the reign of Ivan the Terrible in the sixteenth century, Russia managed to expand at an average rate of 50 square miles per day for hundreds of years, eventually covering one-sixth of the earth’s landmass.

Maybe, just maybe, consider whether any of this expansion has not been active war and murder?

You are doing victim blaming by putting any fault on Ukraine for trying to protect themselves from invasion. They did not manage to protect themselves and now are somehow at fault for war.

In your opinion the victim has to make peace not the aggressor. What a twisted mind.

You say both need to be reminded but somehow only say NATO is bad even tho NATO is not even part of this conflict.

[mopsi]

> Ukraine invited NATO-aligned actors to set up bases along its borders with Russia. That has been considered by the Russians to be an aggressive act warranting a hostile response.

The bases in Ukraine intended for training Ukrainian intelligence staff by US specialists were established two years AFTER Russian invasion, and did not lead to any hostile responses beyond the usual death and destruction that Russia has been sowing all over Ukraine since 2014.

[boffinAudio]

The illegal bases which were being funded, built and used for biowarfare development by the CIA, specifically targeting Russian genotypes, were built and operational for years before Russia invaded.

The 2014 Maidan coup? Another CIA operation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-...

This, from a country that gave itself carte-blanche to ruin any sovereign state its ruling classes deemed culturally inferior, kicking off World War 3 with the illegal invasion of Iraq in 2003 and subsequent murder of 5% of its population.

So, sure. The USA's activities in Ukraine for the past 15 years have been utterly benign ..

[mopsi]

> The illegal bases which were being funded, built and used for biowarfare development by the CIA, specifically targeting Russian genotypes, were built and operational for years before Russia invaded.

The article you linked makes no mention of such things.

There was no coup in Ukraine either. Ukrainian parliament unanimously voted to remove Ukrainian president from office after he gave an order to shoot at peaceful protesters, resulting in over 100 deaths, and fled the country fearing criminal prosecution. All members from his own party voted in favor of that too.

[boffinAudio]

NATO is the #1 aggressor in the world today, bar none. It has demolished countless sovereign states in its quest to enact the plans for world domination made by the US and its ruling oligarch classes, as manifest in the CNAC/PNAC clique - which has set the US' disastrous foreign policy course for the last two decades.

The US - and its NATO allies, using NATO bases - murdered 5% of Iraqs population in cold blood, on the basis of outright lies.

Did you forget these details in your rush to study history? This is recent history - as in there are still millions of victims, who blame the NATO alliance, and the 5-eyes/12-eyes criminal superstate, for the murder, calamity and bloodshed delivered to them, on average, every twenty minutes for the last twenty years.

Yes, Ukraine has made a deal with the devil. Even if the American people aren't aware of it, the rest of the world has been watching NATO member states' war crimes tallies climb into the stratosphere. Far, far above and beyond anything that even Russia can deliver on the war fronts it fights - on its own border.

> NATO is not even part of this conflict.

That is utterly false, and the fact you would proffer this inane statement belies the truth that you are indeed, a victim of insane propaganda.

[Wytwwww]

> It has demolished countless sovereign states

Now name one at least (besides maybe Serbia which isn't exactly demolished however you look at it).

> The US - and its NATO allies, using NATO bases - murdered 5% of Iraqs population in cold blood

That's actually a pretty outright lie...