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by pwb25 834 days ago
the american at will system at work. I dont judge the content of the protest itself, but that you can be fired for political beliefes is crazy to me as a european
11 comments

He wasn't fired for his political beliefs. He was fired for persistently heckling a senior leader during a public presentation, which meets anyone's definition of gross insubordination. He could have gone on a tirade about how Google supports putting ketchup on hot dogs and the result would have been the same, in Europe or the US.
Depends. Do we have any examples of Google allowing obnoxious heckling when it is coming from another political belief? Consistency is key.
Please stop generalizing. As a an european you definitely CAN be fired here for political beliefs if they impact work. Actually you can be fired for anything. Come to Austria and see.

You're not allowed to bring your political beliefs at work, which IMHO is best for everyone. Keep them at home/your private time. Same for religion, sexuality, etc. Your workplace is not your market square for your personal beliefs and activism.

This behaviour is itself inherently good for authoritarian regimes though. You can’t escape politics
Yes you can. Nobody's stopping you from engaging in politics outsider of work(go vote, write to your congressman, go protest, etc), and nobody'd forcing you to work at a company that does things you disagree with. But at work, you go to do work in exchange for money.

The publicly listed company must do what its shareholders want, it has no obligation to do what its employees want, and as long as the company doesn't break any local government laws and employment laws, then it's in the green. You disagreeing with the company's direction is your own matter to deal with, as in, you are free to walk since the company isn't forcing you to work there against your will.

You have no idea what authoritarianism actually means.

They mean that politics and ideology are what your boss is going by to determine whether to give you or your coworker a raise. Or at the least it plays a large part.

Even if you dont talk about politics you are subject to the forces of it.

But politics is changed at the voting booths or via engagement with your lawmakers, not wit your employer. Your employer will only follow the laws set by the state, not by the employees (unless we're talking about a cooperative which Google isn't)
Employees or employers political views can be affected by others.

I realize you don't want to encourage people discussing politics in the workspace and it being 100% ineffective would improve your arguments.

Also, consider the visibility of their protest after getting fired and discussions like this happening across the web.

And no, not all of those discussions end with "keep politics out of f work" and instead focus on how googlers are or arent complicit in powering genocide in t he e project presentation interrupted.

If you were to read a some critiques of neoliberalism you would understand how free market utopianism can lead to authoritarianism/is used as a cover for it. The idea of the absolute duty to shareholders is newer that you would think. It’s an ideological standpoint. So already you are quoting a political line

Regulatory capture and monopoly are both things shareholders might want but are bad for society.

‘Just doing your job’ doesn’t cut it, we’re are part of a community and should feel a civic duty. That’s what i mean

And that is how you get a society that is effectively run by sociopaths.
Yeah, you should definitely also stop talking about your kids at work. Nobody cares about your straight lifestyle.
You can definitionally be fired for giving excessive details about your strait lifestyle. Also, anyone can have kids via marriage, adoption, etc.
You assume only "straight" people can have kids? Sexuality != having kids.
Kids are everything, and the discussion of children is healthy and normal.
Cock is everything.
I'm sorry but kids are more important and valuable than the sex life itself.
You're not allowed to bring your political beliefs at work, which IMHO is best for everyone.

Everybody does bring their political beliefs to work, and it manifests in things like how they interact with their colleagues and customers.

Choosing whether or not to provide equal benefits to same-sex couples is a political decision. Providing goods or services to an authoritarian regime is a political act. Your maternity policy is a political act. Even your dress code can be a political act.

What you really mean is that people shouldn’t be bringing to work views outside of a small range you deem uncontroversial.

>Everybody does bring their political beliefs to work, and it manifests in things like how they interact with their colleagues and customers.

Not it doesn't. How people interact with others at work is a function of their personality and professionalism at their job, not a function of their political color.

If someone at work is being a dick, it only shows that he's a dick, but political junkies will try to justify that it must be because he's of the opposite political beliefs they have, because in their head "all those people behave like that".

Ugh. Why is it that political junkies try to involve everyone else in their game? Most people just want to have a normal life and not get wrapped up in your meta-game about politics. Even the portentousness of calling them "political acts". That impressive sounding two-word phrase that everyone in the political game copies each other by using. Ugh. "You can't play your favorite game because you're all playing in my favorite game."
Idt it’s political beliefs. The protestor was sorta heckling a presentation to my eye.

Edit:

This is even brought up in the second bullet of the linked page.

> The worker stood and shouted during a presentation by Google Israel's managing director.

If their reason for doing it was a political cause it was a protest.

Hecklers only cause is heckling.

ok, still way to much to get fired over. one small thing ? lol americans are so sensitive
Willfully disrupting meetings? Lol. That's not "one small thing", that's "this guy has no place inside a mcdonalds as a CUSTOMER, let alone inside a company"
This kind of behavior doesn't scale. Eventually you have people that just give in to the hysterics because they just want to do their job and not fight ideological battles and the ideologues take over the company. See: how dei took over google and we got gemini.
Keep politics out of the workplace and you won’t have a problem.
If speaking up against supplying surveillance and AI systems (to a state under investigation for genocide) is political, then so is supplying the systems in the first place.

If you have an issue with being protested, maybe don't directly assist the world's most live-streamed set of daily atrocities.

lol what? Standing up and yelling during a meeting is probably the tip of the iceberg. They’re also trying to stage protests, etc.

Nah this person wasn’t working productively any more, as far as I can tell. Worse, they were reducing productivity of others. Possibly making an unsafe work environment.

It’s not about being sensitive or even agreeing. It’s about making product. If we were chopping wood and someone stopped chopping to complain about inner city transit systems. You’d fire them.

> If we were chopping wood and someone stopped chopping to complain about inner city transit systems.

If they kept chopping wood it would be fine though.

Why do they not keep chopping wood in your example?

Someone arranging a protest, yelling during meetings, etc is not working any more.
Maybe not for keeping a job, but as evidenced by media coverage awareness was raised.
He wasn’t fired for his beliefs. He was fired for screaming and interrupting a coworker’s presentation in a public setting.
Can't you go to jail for saying the wrong thing in Europe?
Depends on the thing and the place. In Germany you cannot do a Sieg Heil salute in public, for obvious reasons - and even that is loosely enforced. But you're absolutely allowed to protest.
Right to protest is under threat in the UK, but it's a difficult situation.

You have XE protestors shutting down infrastructure. You have Pro-Palestinian/Pro-Hamas marchers chanting extremist stuff like "From London to Gaza, Victory to the intifada", "We will honour all our martyrs", "Praise the martyrs" and "From the river to the sea".

The whole hate speech/free speech thing, and at what point is calling for and glorifying terrorism, and do we as a society allow that?

It's not helped by our incompetent and corrupt government whose primary base is the worst stereotype little Englander. Our police whose handling of protestors ranges from ineffective to Orwellian.

I'm generally pro-Civ-Lib and hands-off, but at this point, it's difficult.

We need to have an adult conversation as a country about where we draw lines, lest we allow extremism to fester or allow authoritarianism to raise its ugly head.

But we're utterly incapable of having an adult conversation about anything. This may change after the general election later in the year, but... It's a hope rather than a certainty.

Only if you insist on saying Heil Hitler non-stop. Besides that, no.

Even then, Nazi salute is being used on my country's parties and everyone shrugs.

Isn’t it illegal to publicly display any nazi symbols in Germany?
yes it is , but thats a law not some random decicision by a company

Doesn't mean I agree with the law, but at least its more fair

Is that legit political belief? I ISIS legal in US too?
Pretty sure you'll be fired for disrupting company events for your political beliefs in the EU as well, which is what this employee did.

It would be a different matter if they were simply attending pro-Palestine protests on their own time.

I agree with the substance of the protest and frankly I respect the bravery of the person who conducted it. But let’s be realistic here: they were not fired for their views, they were fired for the manner in which they displayed them, which was clearly not appropriate for the workplace, and really left Google no choice but to fire them.
"an employee disrupted a coworker who was giving a presentation — interfering with an official company-sponsored event"
People are jailed for their political beliefs throughout most of Europe.
Not just political beliefs. In many countries in Europe you can be jailed merely for sending an “offensive” message.
> You can be jailed for your political beliefs throughout most of Europe.

Uh ... since when?

Holocaust denial (which is definitely politics, even though it's the despicable kind) is criminal in most of Europe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_Holocaust_denial#B...

Some European states also ban left-wing political symbols: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bans_on_communist_symbols

None of that is jailing for a political belief. You mix beliefs and actions.
It is an expression of political belief, which is what is normally meant in such contexts. I don't see much point in detangling the two, as belief that is not expressed is by definition something that you cannot act against since you don't know about it.
Not if they are following the law no
See, you've got that backwards. If your government makes specific political beliefs illegal, and sends you to jail for expressing them, then you are not free.
"that you can be fired for political beliefes is crazy to me as a european"

Many of us Americans do as well, but America's rich love it.