[cortesoft]

I think the key thing to remember is that they aren't trying to find loopholes or focused on the letter of the law with these decisions.

The rules they have are for practical reasons (whether you agree or disagree with them). It isn't as important to them whether it is perfectly consistent with the letter of the law as whether it fits with the purpose of the rule in the first place.

[Spivak]

Which is contrasted with strict Jewish communities that take the opposite stance — the letter is what matters and there's a certain joy in finding loopholes.

Automatic elevators, timers, an odd definition of inside, pre-torn toilet paper it's all fascinating and clever.

[seanhunter]

A very interesting example of this is the eruv in Golder's Green in North London[1] which is a thin wire which apparently converts outside areas into a private space, allowing observant orthodox Jews to do things on the Sabbath they would not otherwise do. There are proposals for a couple more of these in North London.

As someone who is not religious at all I find it fascinating.

[1] https://www.thejc.com/news/community/new-golders-green-eruv-...

[kelnos]

There's also an eruv that contains nearly all of Manhattan: http://eruv.nyc/

I personally think this has entered the realm of absurdity, but there's admittedly a certain charm to it.

[umanwizard]

These are very common in places with a lot of Jews (e.g. the U.S. and Israel).

[skissane]

> Which is contrasted with strict Jewish communities that take the opposite stance — the letter is what matters and there's a certain joy in finding loopholes.

I think there is still something in common with the Amish approach, in that whether a theoretically possible loophole is allowed in practice often comes down to rabbinical judgement over what the practical consequences would be.

And, just like different Amish groups have different rules, different subgroups within Orthodox Judaism differ over the set of "loopholes" permitted – e.g. some Hasidic dynasties are much stricter about certain areas of halacha than others

[spiderice]

Which is what? Not being dependent on an electrical grid?

[hervature]

I think you are more or less correct with regards to electricity but the rule applies more broadly to technology. Obviously, the Amish use wheels and other tools. The problem for them (and which I think a great many people would agree) is when technology ceases to serve us and we (society) become indentured to the technology. Consider all these "phone-free" movements, limited screen time, and social media detoxes. In this light, the Amish seem very much enlightened that they take many years to deliberate whether a technology is an overall positive or detriment. Going back to the use of electricity. I think probably a huge part of a grid that works at nighttime is that it definitely changes society in the sense that nightlife is all of a sudden possible. You can debate whether or not it's a positive impact to society but the impact is inarguable. People will fall on different sides of that debate.

[tivert]

> The problem for them (and which I think a great many people would agree) is when technology ceases to serve us and we (society) become indentured to the technology.

This is a very good book on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technopoly.

It has three kinds of relationships a culture can have to technology:

tool-using culture: the culture is dominant, tools are used to solve problems and are sued to serve the culture, not attack it.

technocracy: tools attack and change the culture, but the culture still has some force to it.

technopoly: the tools are dominant, and all of culture and humanity must submit to them and their needs. A "totalitarian technocracy."

The Amish are a tool-using culture. General western society is a technocracy or technopoly.