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by roenxi 835 days ago
> (From a brief reading of this thread, it seems like kqr, jacques_chester, and I are the only ones who have put this to practice in non-manufacturing contexts — though correct me if I'm wrong.)

And roenxi.

> So here's my pitch: every Wednesday morning, Amazon's leaders get together to go through 400-500 metrics within one hour.

Amazon's core value proposition is they maintain a large and very physical fleet of machines that they rent out. With serious standards for up-time that they can take real pride in.

They don't sell themselves as a software house. I'm sure they have tentacles everywhere and they aren't bad at it (if anything I'd expect them to be pretty good on a given project), but they've greatly benefited from using other people's software - they don't have their own DB for example, they reuse others and have a couple of PostgreSQL forks for more at-scale use cases.

I'm sure they get huge value from SPC (anything physical generally benefits from it), and I'm sure they use SPC for software out of reflex; but it doesn't follow that it is driving productive behaviour in the software branch of the business. A fleet of ~infinite servers benefits from controlling 400 metrics. Software development does not.

2 comments

What would you say if I told you Bryar has lots of stories of this style of thinking applied in early Amazon? This is pre-AWS Amazon, mind you — where they were trying to figure out how to build e-commerce web software at scale, from scratch. Granted, the bulk of their process control was directed at customer-facing controllable input metrics, but the software engineers were as much a part of it as the operational folks.

I don't have his permission to tell some of these stories, but Eugene Wei has some hints of it here: https://www.eugenewei.com/blog/2017/11/13/remove-the-legend

(To be fair to you, you are adamant that SPC does not apply to software development — which I take to mean measuring the productivity or act of building software. And I think we are all in agreement there! (That said, like kqr and jacques_chester, I want to believe that this has not been sufficiently explored) But it's not true that SPC has no place in software development — one way I've used this is that because XmR charts detect changes in variation, you can use it in a customer-facing software context to see if a feature change has resulted in user behaviour change without running an A/B test. Naturally, it makes sense to have the software engineer be responsible for observing this behaviour change themselves, since XmR charts are easy enough for the layman to use, and it gives them a sense of ownership for the feature or change. Some detail (on usage vs A/B tests) here: https://commoncog.com/two-types-of-data-analysis/)

Saw this on twitter...I actually think SPC can apply to Software Development in that the concept of normal variation, and being able to understand and measure the range, can be pretty useful. More detailed comment here if interested...

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39651368

OP was talking about the Retail and Logistics side of Amazon, from what I can tell...