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by ta1243 830 days ago
Some would say the US is a essentially satellite of Israel

I had an interesting conversation with some left-leaning friends about a month, who were very much anti-Israel in this. (We're British, educated, and Middle class, so statistically we all lean to the left on a scale of UK politics)

I was the only person to have ever been to Israel in the group (I've been to Israel and the West bank more times than I can count, and Gaza several times). They were shocked when I came out with a far more balanced view of the conflict than they had. To them it was black and white oppression of an innocent group of people, and nothing more. They had no concept of the generational hatred that people in Gaza are brainwashed with from birth, on the other hand they also didn't have any concept that there were some Israeli citizens who have spend the last 15 years I've been going there chomping at the bit to drive their tank's into gaza and flatted the entire place.

It's hard to blame the brainwashed children in Gaza, or to continue to blame them when they turn 18, but it's also hard to blame the majority of Israelis who are fully aware there are a million people who have been programmed to want to rip them from their beds and gut them in the middle of the night, or for the moderate ones just burn their house down and kick them out of the region.

The internet never comes out with any decent progression on the problem, and any subtlety is swiftly lost, but one thing is clear -- nothing is going to get better, and nobody is going to win, neither Palestinians nor for Israelis, for generations.

2 comments

You talk of Palestinians as if they have no agency.

Let me ask you this. Were Catholics in Northern Ireland brainwashed to hate the English? Or is it simply more plausible that living under occupation where the rulers of your state seem to not recognize your existence naturally develop hatred towards their occupiers.

And then, who do you consider your occupier is also a subjective matter. Surely many militant Sinn Féin members felt all English were guilty for the occupation, and wanted all Protestants of their lands. Similarly I have no doubt many Hamas members feel the same. But I’m equally sure much more Irish Catholics had much more complex feelings. Most probably made distinctions between involvements of the military, parliament, civilians, etc. and wanted some mix of control over their own affairs, equal rights, police reform, the British military off their lands, etc.

I actually don’t believe your simple narrative. The feelings Palestinians have of Israelis are equally complex as the feeling Irish Catholics had over the English. Nobody has been brainwashed (and frankly it is a bit racist to claim that) but rather have developed their own feelings with full agency.

Here is a headline from today:

> Blinken tells Israel that it must act urgently to boost Gaza aid

It sounds like an order to me. And considering that I think Israel is a US satellite, I think it will come to pass. Let's wait and see.

No other US ally has as much sway in US politics as Israel, not Canada, not the UK, not Japan.
They get a lot of economic and military aid, but other than that?
>'End this war of aggression' in Ukraine, Blinken tells Russia's Lavrov at G20.

It sounds like an order to me