[withinboredom]

Nobody would pay for the fire department, yet they'll have to come put out the fire anyway, so it doesn't destroy civilization.

Would all roads become toll roads? Do we just let the bridges crumble because there aren't enough people driving on them?

If you pay for your police and I don't, am I the one arrested even though you were the one who broke into my house?

Are companies that don't pay for the EPA allowed to pollute to their heart's content?

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The entire point of a government is that it can make long-term (generation spanning) decisions that might cost money and would never return a profit.

[valty]

> Nobody would pay for the fire department

But they essentially do via their taxes. Implying people understand they need to fund it.

If we imagine a very transparent flow of information regarding fires...people would readily see the need for it. Like how we buy insurance.

All roads could be toll roads. We have technology to track exact usage of roads. Why should cyclists pay for the entire road?

If someone doesn't pay for the roads and gets a delivery, then they delivery company passes on the cost of the road.

If we have very transparent availability of pricing then this becomes possible.

> Are companies that don't pay for the EPA allowed to pollute to their heart's content?

If people don't want pollution...they shouldn't buy from companies that pollute.

If people don't want pollution they should ban it from their private property.

With modern tech we can see the entire supply chain of these companies, so consumers can make choices.

[withinboredom]

Surely you can see how insane this idea is IRT pollution. If companies aren’t forced to NOT pollute, they will pollute. Government very rarely (at least in the West) regulates industries for the sake of regulation. Usually, those regulations exist because companies wouldn’t self-regulate and “do the right thing.” History has shown time and time again that if given the choice, a company would rather poison and kill its employees, their families, and neighboring communities (and in some cases, their customers), than lose out on profits.

IRT fires: fires are extremely unlikely to hit your specific house. You already have insurance for it. No, the fire department isn’t there to put out your fire to save your house. They are there to stop a single fire from burning down the city. I’ve seen this happen on our base in Afghanistan. It all started with a small fire, the guy ran to get a fire extinguisher, but by the time he got back, the fire was too big. In less than an hour, half the base was gone. People prioritized saving mattresses over ammo (mattresses would be the last thing replaced while ammo would be replaced immediately, and fuck sleeping on the ground).

IRT roads: you are basically saying the rich have freedom of movement but the poor do not. With taxes, more can be taken from those that have more and less can be taken from those who have less. Having mobility in a civilized society is one of the hallmarks of a civilized society instead of middle age bs.

[valty]

> If companies aren’t forced to NOT pollute, they will pollute

If no one buys their products, or any products with them in the supply chain, then they won't pollute.

Visibility into these supply chains wasn't possible before internet/technology. A free market relies on consumers paying attention which so far they haven't been, because we are too used to relying on the government...and then complain so much about government.

You definitely see consumers driving improvements through their purchasing. Definitely in areas such as sustainability.

I guess regulation addresses a time lag situation. But if a private market developed for a companies that regulates other companies with subscription fees, then this would solve the problem and do it in a better way. Although I'm not sure how the threat of jail can fit into this. Can penalties be strong enough? Is bankruptcy a strong enough disincentive to lie to private regulators.

> They are there to stop a single fire from burning down the city.

Interesting point. Definitely has non-excludability.

I remember this scene in Gangs of New York where the firemen fight each other back when it was privatized (don't know if this was real).

> rich have freedom of movement but the poor do not

A lot of transport is private. Maybe the poor have more money if they don't have to pay so much in taxes.

[acdha]

I’d also add that there are often power imbalances which are irreconcilable. If I go to buy some chicken, Tyson’s is going to laugh if I request to tour their growing facilities and processing plants. Even if I get everyone I know together to ask for it, we’re still too small a group to care about. Maybe I try organizing online, which probably goes nowhere but if it does they ask their buddies at Comcast to block access to that site, etc. Very few people have the time, energy, or resources to monitor more than a few of the thousands of companies they depend on.

[valty]

> Maybe I try organizing online, which probably goes nowhere...Very few people have the time, energy, or resources

The thing is...a sector of companies that do this is probably a good business opportunity that is being crowded out by a mandatory government monopoly.

The fact that government does this means that you are already paying for it, and maybe its not being done well.

If people care about their food, they should look for a sticker on their food, from an organization that verifies it. If other people don't have the label, and people know about it, then people won't buy from them.

And if this is too much trouble, then have another industry above this where companies offer all-encompassing ratings on a variety of different things.

With modern technology so much is possible to solve problems that otherwise were too complicated.

You could end up with a marketplace of super apps, that ensure you are completely covered across all avenues of life to the parameters that you desire.

It sounds complicated, but today its even more complicated with government where we rely on the media mostly.