[icandoitbetter]

> listen, the state doesn't have a "moral right" on your money, energy, or time

Of course it does. Without the state, there would be no property rights.

[Karunamon]

That's a legal right, not a moral right. Strictly business, in other words.

[icandoitbetter]

The state gives you the "moral right" to your property by protecting it from others using violence. There's no such thing as private property without the state. That was my argument. I'm not taking a position on whether Saverin should've retained his citizenship and paid taxes or not.

[Karunamon]

Except the state doesn't actually protect, they only enforce consequences after the fact. If someone wants to destroy your property, the state is powerless, and the aggressor will more likely than not be successful, depending on their and your level of savvy.

I know this sounds incredibly pedantic, but feel it's important to make the clarification.

[HSO]

without the state, i'd wear arms.