[9935c101ab17a66]

Can I ask why you’re concerned about the legitimacy of the kids reasoning for setting off fireworks? Like, if he was shot and killed on a holiday, it’s not his fault, but it’s perfectly reasonable to be shot and killed by a police officer when a opaque surveillance system reports gunshots on non-holidays?

[sbierwagen]

Cops are Bayesian reasoners.

If you set off fireworks inside the White House, right now, would you be surprised to suddenly meet the acquaintance of many armed men? Fireworks don't often go off in the Oval Office. Loud banging noises are therefore assumed to be gunfire, not fireworks.

If you set off fireworks on the South Pole on July 4th, would you meet police? No, and for two reasons: July 4th is a well known day for setting off fireworks, and the South Pole is far away from basically everything.

If you set off fireworks shortly before midnight, on a random Thursday in January, in a city that's famous for having large numbers of murders, should policemen assume it's fireworks, or gunshots?

[ragazzina]

On the American internet I often find the Freedom Indeterminacy Principle, where "it's a free country, you should be able to light a firework on a random Thursday in January if you want" and "if you light a firework outside of public holidays you should expect to be killed" coexist in harmony.

[bilbo0s]

No they don't.

We are free here.

These cops acted without justification, then committed a crime to cover up their unjustified actions by attesting to multiple demonstrable falsehoods.

The HN User you are responding to is stretching to make the situation seem reasonable in the US. It is not reasonable in the US and we will continue to demonstrate its unreasonableness to officers who can't seem to understand. We will do so through everything from disciplinary actions to docked pay to dismissals to prison terms if we must.

I'm tired of people seeing these things and saying we aren't free here. It's more accurate to say we have a few nugget headed police officers who can't seem to understand that we are free. And then you get the impression that their nugget headed behavior is normalized because they have a few nugget headed supporters who go out to defend the indefensible. I can assure you, inside police forces nowadays these sorts of loose cannons are very much looked on as liabilities.

Every nation will have some level of corruption, and we obviously have ours as this incident clearly demonstrates. But there is a reason these worms are burrowing under rocks to try to hide. It's because they know they are engaged in explicitly criminal activity. They are the crisis of confidence in the US. Now real police officers will have an even more difficult time operating in the community.

[bilbo0s]

Guy, the job is law enforcement. Not Bayesian Reasoning enforcement.

It's just the words on the page. Was a law broken or not.

Let me explain it to you in a fashion you might better understand. Let's suppose a man is late on his child support because the child he was ordered to pay child support for is not his. If you are a Bayesian Reasoner and conclude there is no reason to arrest this man, then you have no place on the police force. Full stop. You see judgement is the job of the courts. It's not my place to decide whether or not someone is being done an injustice or justice by being arrested. The only concern of an LEO has to be the words on the page. He didn't pay child support that I personally believe was unjustly ordered, but I'm still taking him down.

That's the job. You don't believe that kid should be setting off fireworks, that's your business. But you better have a legal reason if you are going to take action against a person in our system. Because it's based on rule of law. It's more critical now than at almost any time in the past that LEOs understand that fact. Those who don't are gonna do nothing but make life hard for a whole lot of decent LEOs out there.

[8organicbits]

s/meet police/get shot and killed by police/g

It's reasonable for cops to investigate loud noises, but killing unarmed children is wrong every day of the year.

[elendee]

there is an unfortunate reality that in neighborhoods like mine, there is a culture of imitating gun shots. It's tangential to this tragic incident, but it's also an issue that I assume will only explode as it becomes "cool" to trigger shot spotters with your fireworks, cars, motorcycles. It's daily here in Brooklyn as soon as the temperature is above freezing